Sinker Cypress

[Ricky P]

I've got a chance to pick up some Sinker Cypress Logs locally at $2/bf.  Still sort of stiff but, that's the best price I've seen and they're only about 40 miles away...So, I'm going to go for it.

BUT, before I drop that kind of money on this stuff...figured I would check with ya'll to get some ideas on....

Log selection....How can I tell a good, solid log??

Milling....Plan to cut mostly 5/4 by the widest planks I can get, up to 12"...some slabs with raw edges....lesser widths to avoid wasting anything.  Any other Sugestions???

Drying....Plan to air dry at least 6 months and run it thru the kiln when it gets closer to the time to use it.

Use....The most likely possibility is kitchen cabinet face frame, drawer and door fronts, kitchen trim and window frames and sills....and kitchen a table.

So, the biggest question right now is LOG SELECTION...any suggestions in this area would really be a big help.

I can only get (afford..Per the BOSS Lady) 1000 bf...so the plan is to stretch it as far as possible and (at this price) have minimum waste.

Thanks ya'll for ANY input.

[Kirk Allen]

Im sure Harold will pop up and give you some input.  He was a deadheader in FL for several years and knows the wood well!

[HaroldCR]

 Ahhight.     That's Southren speak  

  How to tell if it's solid. See any holes  

  Seriously, Pecky will show small holes in the ends.  Take something like a 3# hammer, and bang the logs. Don't beat 'em up, just listen for that DULL thunk. Logs up to 16" dia, butt cuts, I wouldn't worry much, unless they are developing rot ?? Check most of the length.

  How long are them logs If short, you just eliminated a LOT of banging. I'm referrencing full length, 35'+ logs, like we found 'em.

  WIDE logs, like the 40" + that we pulled, might have possibilities, but, shy of an x-ray, I don't know how else to advise you.

  We sold everything for $4.50 to $5.50 BD/FT, cut 1 1/8" thick. Thicker, we added more to the price. We edged the smaller stuff, and, left the natural edge on thicker stuff.

  Cut Table slabs at 3" thick, MINIMUM.  Gives room for flattening the cupped boards, even if you need to use a hand held planer. We could saw 36" wide SLABS, from wider logs. Had no problem selling all we could cut.

  There are variable colors throughout the logs. Some are fairly blonde, some have yellow streaks throughout the darker heart wood. Some are nearly Chocolate Dark.  Had a few logs that had yellows, reds, purples, blues, and darker browns, all mixed in the log.

  Never could figure out why, unless it was from logs that lay buried in backwater areas with minimal water flow

  It's all pretty much a crap shoot, and, a log solid on both ends, could still have peck in the middle

  Good luck, and post photos.  Prices were added to show the Bride you are getting a deal. I know someone getting $3.00 at a mill.   Where y'all are

[Ricky P]

Thanks Harold....We be in Covington LA...Just North of that big lake.

I am trying to send a picture of his ad from Craigslist...but don't really know how...YET!!!

[Ricky P]

Well it worked....just guessing but they look about 14" to 24".  No idea of how long. 

We'll be eye-balling them in a couple of days.

[HaroldCR]

 See them darker spots in the middle of a couple of those logs   Could be pecky inside, so, be aware.

  Lots of folks think that's "Bird Peck", but, Pecky Cypress is caused by a Fungus.

[Ricky P]

Looked at the cypress yesterday...they looked pretty good to us and he has a really neat set up for recovering these logs.  Took a camera but got too busy doing buisness

My only problem now is the way he wants to scale the logs to sell.

Can somebody help me out here???

He measures the dia of both ends of a log...averages that...then uses the Doyle Scale to figure board feet.

Is that the correct way to do it??  I thought you only used the small end??

Example log:::  18" small end,  26" big end,  18' long.

Regular Doyle = 220
His Doyle       = 364

Using his method the bf almost doubles per log.

As it stands for me right now...NO DEAL!!

Any ideas, suggestions, or otherwise???

[Kirk Allen]

Small end is the industry standard.  I would show him the scale difference to see what kind of response you get. 

He may be doing that to take advantage of those who dont know the right way to do it. 

If he didnt know, now he does.  If he did know, he is ripping people off and I would not do business with them.

[Kirk Allen]

Doyle Rule
This is one of the most widely used and roundly cursed log rules in existence. It is, or has been,
that statute rule in Arkansas (replaced by Scribner n 1901), British Columbia (1884-1895), Florida,
Louisiana (replaced by Scribner-Doyle in 1914),and Ontario (until 1952). It is not so widely used
where timber is large or where Federally owned timber is involved, but in all other areas there is
probably more sawlog volume measured by Doyle than by all other rules combined. Its primary
characteristic and the main reason for its populariy, at least with buyers, is that it gives a very
large over-run on small logs.

Diameter should be measured inside bark at the small end of the log, but there are numerous local
modifications. Some scalers measure at the middle of the log, some include one bark, some both
barks, and some measure inside bark “plus a thumb.” Occasionally sweep is disregarded and a
fairly common practice is to give logs under 7 inches in diameter a scale equal to their length.
Most of these variants seem to be rough attempts to compensate for the notorious underscaling of
small logs.

The primary weakness of the Doyle Rule is that the allowance for slabs and edgings (4 inches) is
far too large for small logs and too small for large logs. Most studies have shown that the allowance
for surface wastage is proportional to diameter and length, rather than a constant. The second
fault of the rule is that it allows only about 4.5 percent of the log volume for sawdust and shrinkage
whereas most rules make an allowance of anywhere from 10 to 30 percent. Finally, the rule
makes no allowance for log taper, a deficiency that it has in common with most other rules.
Harold C. Belyea ( 15 , 16 , ) has published some interesting studies of the history of the Doyle and
the Scribner Rules. The second edition of “The Improved Pocket Reckoner for Timber, Plant,
Boards, Saw Logs, Wages, Board, and Interest” by Edward Doyle was published in 1837 in
Rochester, New York. In this publication are tabulated the board foot contents of logs as given by
the Doyle Rule. Values are shown for logs 10 to 25 feet in length and for small-end diameters from
12 to 36 inches. The first edition of Doyle’s pocket reckoner was published in 1825. Although it very
likely contained that same table, this cannot be verified as there are no known copies of the
original.

After the Scribner Rule was introduced in 1846, it largely supplanted the less reliable Doyle. However,
as Belyea has shown, a rather odd turn of events resurrected that “hoary old sinner of a log
rule.” Some time around 1872 to 1875, J. M.Scribner sold the copyrights and rights of royalty
for his original work to the publisher George W. Fisher. Prior to this Fisher had also acquired the
copyright and stereotype plates of Doyle’s Ready Reckoner. Then in 1876 Fisher published “Scribner’s
Lumber and Log Book” which was nearly identical to the original Scribner publication even
to the extent of listing Scribner as the author, But, in place of the Scribner Rule there was a table of
values identical to the Doyle Rule which had been out of print for over 20 years. Because of this publication, the Doyle Rule was often referred to as the New Scribner Rule or, more simply, the New
Rule . In 1879 when the province of Ontario adopted a rule for the measurement of logs taken from
Crown lands and for log purchases on private lands the enabling act read, “to follow the table
values of the new rule as published in Scribner’s Lumber and Log Book.” Thus, the Doyle Rule has
also been known as the Ontario Rule though it has since been replaced by another rule of that name.
This new publication of the Doyle Rule had some minor differences from the original rule. However,
one not so minor difference was that in place of small-end diameter inside bark, the average of
the two end diameters was to be used with an allowance for bark of 1/10 to 1/12 the circumference
(an impossibly large allowance). There is little evidence that this procedure ever was widely
used in practice but there are infrequent references to the Mid-Doyle Rule .

Other rules that are similar to, or the same as, the Doyle are: Arkansas Rule , Beeman Rule ,
Moore Rule , Moore and Beeman Rule , Connecticut River Rule , St. Croix Rule , Thurber Rule , and
Vannoy Rule . Because of its publication in Scribner’s Lumber and Log book the Doyle Rule has
even been called the Scribner Rule! Duff ( 76 ) reports that in the Ohakune District of
New Zealand, logs were scaled according to the Moore or Ohakune Table which was based on the
Doyle Rule.

[Ricky P]

Thanks Kirk

Just dropped him a note asking him to rethink his method.

The ball is back in his court...We'll see??

[HaroldCR]

 Look up Goodwin Heart Pine in Gainesville Fl. He is the mill we started out selling to.

  He buys by Intl. scale, and scales at the small end. Intl. gives a more accurate -fair scale for both parties involved.

  Down here for example, They use a string, and measure around both ends AND the middle of each and every log. Then figure by the Pulgada, Vara, and Metres.

  Doyle favors the Logger, up to 22" dia. I think   Over that, it favors the Mill. It's been a while since I messed with Doyle  .

  As I wrote before, if you saw the logs, just sell a few table slabs, and the whole load is paid for. ??

[Ricky P]

I'm almost tempted to suggest using the international scale.  On the other hand, his ad said he used Doyle....so, I'm playing by his rules.  Just going to let him stew for a while.

Was doing some checking with others that sell this stuff....found a place near Monroe selling sinker logs for $1.75/bf.  He indicated "times are tuff round here".

Might just load up my wife (Janet), make a weekend run, and show her a good time in a big city.

[HaroldCR]

 Sounds like a good idea to me. Can't fault the guy for wanting more money. Getting Sinkers is not all that easy, unless the water is VERY clear. We were diving in Coffee and using the "Braille" method. 

  Any chance of getting some photos from the other guy, before going on a long trip ??

[HaroldCR]

 Where's Ricky   Did he get lost and can't find his way home

  I would be interested in how he made out with either log seller.

  We also had to keep an eye out for metal. They drove lags and hooks into the logs, to string a cable through to raft them for the trip to the mill.

  Even found 2 wedge type pieces with ring and couple links of chain still attached.