Which Saw To Buy???

[LogNutJob]

Greetings.....I'm new to the forum and looking for some sage advice....

I own 65 acres in Tenn......densely forested in white and red oak and hickory trees. The time has come to build a cabin on the property using the resources off the land.....My wife is ready to kill me....all I have been doing is researching sawmill manufacturers to see if there is a true leader in the field....

OK - some facts....

The house will need 50' ridge beams, at least 6"x6"....so any saw I purchase will need extension tracks on it.....

My budget for the saw is under $12,000.

I want a fixed base sawmill....no trailer package.....

Here is my question..

Which is the best brand of bandsaw mill on the market for a DIY'er like me who is only gonna use the mill to build a log home.....?

Which is the best brand of circular mill on the market for the same reasons?

Does a circular sawmill really beat a band saw mill in terms of operating costs ( replacement bands, sharpeners, mill life)?

I'm looking for some no-B.S. advice......which mills have the best reputations for dependability, workmanship, and durability.......Give it to me straight!!!

Thanks!!!

[Kirk Allen]

Welcome to the forum Lognutjob!  Like the name!     

I own a Wood Mizer so there is a slight bias in that direction but facts dont lie 

The company with the largets customer base in the world is Wood-Mizer, although there are several
brands that would work for what your wanting to do.

Because of my experience I would probably choose the LT15 or LT 28 but considering your wanting extenstion to take you to 50 feet I think you would save on the extensions with the LT15. 

The limiting factor for a Wood Mizer is going to be your budget.  Some say your paying for a name but I can say that name has earned a reputation for great support and knowledge in the industry and they make a great product. 

As far as circle mills go, that is a very large learning curve for the beginner and I dont know of any new ones you can get into for the budget you have.  I have a corley but I have not set it up yet.  Its used and for the right price its for sale   
http://www.sawmillandtimb...,511.msg4934.html#msg4934

As far as one beating the other on costs its a tough one to answer.  I guess it depends on what you have in both to start with.  I can knock out a boat load of lumber on my bandmill by my self with less labor than it takes me to do the same on a circle mill, other than the circle mill cuts faster.  The log handling and lumber handling is going to determine a lot when it comes to your production capability.   I looked at both when I got started and went with a band mill because of what I got for the money.  Hydraulics was standard and that solved log handling issues to a large degree.  Circle mills in a lot of cases (lower costs ones) do not have log turning hydraulic features and that can be a real pain doing it manualy.

Wood mizer has a great reputation, are extreamly dependable, and anyone can be cutting lumber in a matter of 15 inutes of instructions.  I have taken mine on the road over 1000 miles and cut the next day with no issues on more than one occasion.   

I dont think you can go wrong with a Wood Mizer. 


Now that Frank is ready to shoot me with all this band mill stuff............................Take a hard look at a Mobil Dimension mill.  They rock!  Each pass is a finished board and you can cut just about any size diameter log you want. Not sure on extensions though?  http://mobilemfg.com/indexen.html

I am sure Frank with chime in and fill you in on his experience as he is probably the expert on them and works very closely with the manufacture on new and upcoming features.  He also has one for sale and I can say it rocks becuase I have ran it! 

Many more folks will chime in with their input so be prepared for lots of opinions

Now for the disclaimer, everyone here knows where I stand when it comes to a band mill, any band mill.  All have features and benefits and all will cut great lumber.  The tough part comes in making the desicison with all the factors that each person is faced with, and since those factors are different with each person, opinions are all over the board.  The one that we all agree on, they all will cut great lumber if they are set up right! 

There are 4 banner adds at the top and each of those companies make a great mill as well.  The banner adds are not paid for advertising nor an endorsement of their product.  They are simply manufacturse of prodcuts related to this forum and we post the banner for free as a way for folks to find sources to go to for sawmill related products.

[LogNutJob]

Kirk,

Thanks for your insight.....by chance do you work for Wood-Mizer??? 

Let me add two more questions to the mix:

Which type of mill (band or circular) works best with hardwoods?

How often should I expect to change band blades when working with hardwoods?

[Kirk Allen]

No............well............Yes.............No?  I dont get paid by wood mizer but I do test stuff for them when they come out with improvements. 

Either work well.  I think the challenge with the circle mill is going to be the learning curve.  If you have ran one before then no problem but if not, find one in your area and donate your time to learn its operation. 

When it comes to hardwoods, horse power, blade selection and log diameter all play a role.  They both work well if set up right.  I cut pretty much nothing but hardwood with my bandmill.  My logs average 20" and 56" is the largest I have tried to widdle down. (wont do that again   )

Blade changes for bandmills depends on the wood.  300 Board Feet of Shagbark Hickory and I want a new blade, unless Im using a carbide blade, which can lead to 3-5 times the blade life.  As far as a circle mill, not sure how long before the teeth need sharpened. 

White oak is harder than red, Cherry cuts like butter as does walnut.  Elm can be a pain, Hackberry and cottonwood is like a hot knife through butter, Osage is like cutting steal, and good old maple will test your skills! 

The bigger the log the harder it is for a given HP to pull the blade through.  Even though white oak is some tuff stuff, if its a 16" log I can rip right through it.  Make that a 26" log and all bets are off.  That is where blade selection, gullet size, tooth angle etc. come into play. 

I can cut most of my hardwoods all day and use 2-3 blades depending on what I am cutting.  4 blades in a full 8 hours cutting Hickory.  30 minutes or so to resharpen and set them. 

[LogNutJob]

Again, many thanks! I'm soaking all this in.....

What about hickory???

Is a mechanical band sharpener worth the investment?

[Kirk Allen]

Shagbark Hickory is the hardest with Pignut a close second.  Beutiful wood but it takes a sharp blade and you definatly want a debarker attachment on the mill.  The bark is what kills a blade.

I have a band sharpener but if your only focusing on the personal use I would probably use a resharp service, of which Woodmizer does have if your using their blades.  Point being, if you go with another brand mill you can still use WM blades and have them resharped by WM. 

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Kirk, just about covered it all.  The MD mill has the capability to cut the 50', but challengin as it needa a jill-poke or two to support the track and carrage.  Then you come to the issue of dollars.  You would be more than yout dollar limit by twice with the need for the track length.  More later.

[Stevem]

One of the considerations as to which saw mill is best is the diameter of logs you want to cut. 

As to length 50', that is going to require support equipment of some type or a lot of people to move the log an.  A standard circle saw that will cut a 50' board has to have over 100' of track and a carriage that is far from normal.  You might want to rethink the need for that length.  And where I live (Oregon) getting a 50' 6X6 hardwood beam would require a real tree search to find something to cut.  Lots of additional expense to attain that length and could well break your budget.

Maybe a chainsaw mill just to cut the 50 footers?

Support seems to be a big item when it comes to mills so I'd stick with a name brand.  Most all have users that love their mills.  Harbor frieght is now selling (cheap) mills made in China but I don't speak Chineese.

You might check on Norwood, I've heard good things about them and their support.  I've got a Lucas and don't think you'd want to use it to cut long logs.  Good for 20 feet and down any diameter and good support.

[Kirk Allen]

Norwoods are great little mills but it seams that a lot of the folks I know that have one have had to beef up the track/support rails for big stuff. 

[HaroldCR]

 Just ignore Kirk, and find a good used Swing Blade Mill. 

  You can actually build a track from wood and make it as long as you want. They are easy to operate, easy to move to remote locations, and you don't have to find a way to load the logs UP on the mill. Just cut a couple 8 X 8's for bunks, and set or roll the logs up there. They will cut up to 20" wide, if you find a 10" Peterson, or cut 16" wide with the standard 8" Peterson or Lucas or Brand X. Petersons are SS and Aluminum, so, no rust to worry about.

  I have one in Costa Rica, and have cut logs to 40 FEET long and to 52 INCHES dia.

  One day I will send some photos to Kirk to put in a post, maybe this one, if you get interested. 

  Hi Kirk. 

[Ricky P]

The biggest bang for my BUCK was the Lucas 613.  Less than $8K delivered with extentions for 20' logs.  Got it Dec 28 2005...milled around 60k bf so far...replaced 2 rollers.

Economical rig for a small timer like me.  It has done everything I've needed, and more, for a 1700sq/ft addition.  Only had to buy the 32 ft rafters....couldn't justify the cost for the extentions.

When I first looked at Lucas...they looked sort of, well cheap, but I liked the simple mechanics.  After using it, I was rather impressed.

If you want to be a pro...get a MD.

[Kirk Allen]

Lucas and Peterson are great Swing Mills.  Another one that seems fairly nice is Brand X.  That is the name of it, "Brand X"

[HaroldCR]

 When I read he wanted to only build a timber frame, Swingers are about designed just for that. And, he stated it was for ONLY a single building.

  About impossible to buy any band mill to saw 50+ feet long, at his stated price.

  MD's are a nice mill. I ran one back in the late 70's.  Woodmizers are a great mill. That's why we kinda copied theirs, to saw wide logs. Swingers can be moved and set up by 1 man, in very tough places to even GET a mill. 

[LogNutJob]

Everyone = = = thanks for the input....keep it coming!!!

Ok....I will admit I am leaning towards a Peterson or Lucas.......

So....lets focus on those manufacturers......who has the best warranty service and quality of product.......I know this is probably going to result in some intense replies, but I really want to know the nitty-gritty on these mills before dropping a wad of cash......

I think I will take the suggestioon to cut the long beams and timbers with a chain saw mill.....

What is your opinion on cutting two 25ft beams and joining them in the middle over a 8x8 post beam?

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Good idea on the post,as long as you bolt a long splice on each side.  For a wad of money, I am putting out over $25,000 fo the new MD mill, I am getting , plus all the electrical changes I have to make. I may even have to buy a new bucket for a power pole.

[HaroldCR]

 Peterson has dealers scattered around in the US. Lucas has Bailey's, in Tennessee, and maybe California

  Each about bend over backwards to help owners.

 Lucas can be adjusted to saw parallel to the bark. Peterson requires leveling the log.

 Lucas requires a trip to each track support to raise or lower the carriage. Peterson raises the carriage from one spot.

  Used mills are available, because guys want one, then see how much hard work is involved.

  Both come with a sharpener, or SHOULD, anyway, and, usually an extra blade or 2. I have 6 blades, because there are no dealers down here. I get them re-tipped in the big town, 30 miles away.

  I have cut 6 X 8 beams 24' long, out of SYP, using a chainsaw. It was NECESSITY. NEVER AGAIN. Hot, nauseaus fumes, buildup of stringy sawdust clogging the dust chute. Multitudes of gasoline and oil. LONG hard days, bending over, shoving that saw down the track.

  I realize this is YOUR thread. I'm just stating things you may NOT be aware of. If you ARE aware of these things, I apologize for seeming to be prejudiced.

  As stated earlier, I made a wooden track extension for the Peterson I have, to saw the 40' 2 X 8's out of HARD HEAVY lumber. Biggest problem I had was teaching the helpers how to handle the lumber, to get it off the mill. They still did it the hard way, and slowed up the cutting to make 5 days out of what should have been 2½ or so.

 By the way, I am 66 years old, and have logs to cut, anytime I get in the mood, both for customers, and for me.

  I can almost guarantee that, once people see the beams you cut, with a decent mill, you will be asked to cut some for them.

  We had a specialty underwater logging-sawing operation, and, was asked CONSTANTLY to saw logs for others, using our home built band mill, as compared to a sawyer using a Commercially built mill. We charged more, took all his work, IF we chose to, and he never did figure out why

  Whatever you decide, I hope you post photos. I LIKES photos.  

[LogNutJob]

Harold,

Thanks so much.......I asked for raw, honest feedback and your post is exactly what I am looking for......

I'm a neophyte with these machines and I look to learn as much detail as possible from any and all who have experience with them.......

Bailey's in Tennessee??

What size blade is the most advantageous for a mix of sizes? The 6, 7,  or 8 inch blades?? Does the Lucas and Peterson products equally perform well when smaller size dimensions are needed?

[HaroldCR]

 Yessir
 Jackson, Tenn. and Laytonville ,Ca.

  If I were looking, I would get the 8" model, no matter what brand.  The Peterson will double cut, meaning, cut both ways, without having to lift and turn the Carriage, IF you need wide boards, wider than 8", anyway. Lucas you have to physically lift and turn the Carriage around, to cut wide cuts.  Think I remember a rumor to the fact that Lucas was looking into a remedy for the manual turning of the carriage.

  Also, you can get a Slabbing Attachment, so you could saw Table Slabs or whatever, using the whole width of the log.

  Our Home Built mill could PRODUCE 36" wide Table Slabs.  I built a Slabber for my Peterson, down here. Haven't found the right tree yet, to need to use it.

  Don't know where you are located, but, there are many owners out there, that would be glad to show you what they have.

  There are also Videos available from both Manufacturers.  Brand X is a good machine. They are in Montana or Idaho, and require you to attend their class to learn how to run the mill. Then, they build to order.

  I would look for used, and try to see it working. They are not difficult to learn how to operate.

  Good Luck.

[LogNutJob]

I will gladly post pics once work gets underway in a few weeks.....

I live just south of Nashville, Tn.....Is Bailey's in Jackson, TN a retail store??

[Ricky P]

Just a couple of pics for grins.

My biggest log...46"...   making 2 x 4's..  logs that have been cut.

[Ricky P]

OOPS...wrong pic for the biggest log.  Actually that's the second section of the biggest log.

[Kirk Allen]

Ricky it looks like you got some cutting to do!

[mike p]

i guess you will be useing your own timber
if only one house to cut out concider hireing a local mill owner to saw your timber on shares
& use an alaskin chainsaw mill for the real long stuff
then you can help the miller & learn with no cash outlay

[Ricky P]

Kirk...not to get too far off NutJobs topic...all that timber, and more, has been milled (with the Lucas), dried, planed and used on my project.

Mike...Don't talk him out of getting a mill.  Let him get some sawdust in his viens...Then he's ruined like the rest of us.

[LogNutJob]

Mike: This project is my swan song......I want to do it all.........call me crazy.......

Now if I could only master the craftsmanship aspect!! 

I will take all the time it takes to make every cut just right......

Back on topic......any body have the Peterson price list???

Where would a person go to see what is available on used circular saws.....?

I'm surprised there has not been a stronger response in favor of the band saws......

[HaroldCR]

 I just sent Kirk a couple photos.

  You killed the band saw thoughts, when you said 50+ feet long and working solo.  I LOVE our Band Mill, but, you would work yourself to death, turning 50+ feet long stuff.

  Click on Lucas sponsor at the top of the page. Google Peterson, for a rep in your area. I bought my old model Peterson from a guy in Tennessee that builds gittaars. Can't remember the little community, but, I couldn't get there from Florida. I had to pick up a buddy to go with me. Somewhere near liberty, I think

  Believe Baileys in Tenn IS Retail. Do the Google thing.

[Kirk Allen]

[HaroldCR]

 In the one photo, where the guy is using a Chainsaw, it's a Stihl 090. It has a 36" CUT and the fumes will knock you down  

  They use the "Alaskan mill principal to mill logs down here. PILES of sawdust and slabs left behind.

  Wish I knew more about Pellet Mills and exporting 

[Kirk Allen]

Pellet mills are spendy and to date I have not heard any positive stories from those that baught one.  All seem to be made in China, or they are industrial pellet machines that the common joe cant afford.

[HaroldCR]

 You are correct. I've done a bunch of searching. A commercial mill can produce about 2 tons per hour   That isn't much, considering all the necessary steps involved

[mike p]

Quoit
Mike: This project is my swan song......I want to do it all.........call me crazy.......

sounds like you got the same attitude as most of us here
if you use a chain saw mill for the long stuff
a band mill wood be ideal for the rest of your house project
i use a Kasco saw 2 B
check out cooks for used mills a few years ago they had a lot of used stuff & sawmill exchange

[Carl Middleton]

Welcome Nutjob If I remember right Frank knows a gal out on the left coast that cut 50' and longer beams with a band mill. I think it was a cooks mill not sure. Ihave a woodmizer Lt 40 and have sawn 26' 4x10 beams without any bed extentions. I use a bobcat with pallet forks to lift the beams after I saw them.

[Carl Middleton]

I rember now Look at http://Truecutcustommilling.com Her name is Gia and she uses a Baker band saw Check out her site. Beams dont get any better than hers.

[LogNutJob]

Ok - - - I need some no b-s advice.....

The Peterson models are $3000 to $5000 higher than the comparable Lucas model.......is the Peterson that much better a saw?

If you were buying a 8" sawmill......which would you pick???

[HaroldCR]

 Your location and your project, I would go Lucas. Peterson IS a more feature mill, but, you can always sell that Lucas and not lose a lot of money.

  Have you gotten BOTH Videos, yet   Do that before buying. Ya got all winter to think about it.

[Kirk Allen]

I would go with the 10" over the 8".  Does Lucas make a 10?  If so, I would probably go that route living where you live. 

Before I did that though I would definatly check out the Brand X mill. http://www.brandxsawmills.com/

[Ricky P]

OK!!!  No BS!!!

If I had to do it again....I'd buy the same rig....Lucas 613.  Well, 618 now, since they don't do 13hp any more.

Why???  Still the biggest bang for my buck that I see.  And, mobility....set up is a breeze.

Watch all the videos...then....if at all possable, find some mills near you and go watch them in action.  Get your hands dirty helping and ask a lot of questions.  I was able to see a Peterson, a MD, and several band mills before I made my desision.  It was well worth all the driving.

Pay close attention to what it takes to set up each mill....log loading and log set up.  I realized that the actual sawing of the log is the easy part...getting it all ready to go...that's the hard part.

Besides the above mentioned reasons, the ease of log set up with the Lucas played a big part of my desision.

The Bailey's web site used to have a list of people that would demo their mill...if you can't find it....call them, I'm sure they'll help you find one.

[LogNutJob]

Thanks folks for all your feedback....

[LogNutJob]

Does anyone have an email address for somone high up at Bailey's? I can't reach anyone on the phone to talk about the mills......

[HaroldCR]

 I have heard they are VERY helpful to talk with. Emails don't get it, for me. I would try them tomorrow, or until I get a live person on the phone.

  That's just me, though

[Ricky P]

I sent them an email last Friday with questions on the slabber head for my rails.  Someone called me back Monday afternoon.  Answered all my questions.

[Stevem]

Lucas just started marketing a 10" mill.  The 8" mills can be stretched to 9".