Sawmill and Timber

Forestry, Logging and Building => Timber Management => Topic started by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 02, 2008, 09:18:25 AM

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Title: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 02, 2008, 09:18:25 AM
Well, I am off the plant a thousand Valley Pondarosa Pine, today.  I have some areas that Firs do not grow well and decided to plant the Pine.  The Pine can take wet feet in the Winter months as well as the dry of the Summer.  This heavy clay soils is ideal for this species of Pine.  Me and my hoedad are going to get well acquainted again, after a number of years, 25.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 02, 2008, 09:28:42 AM
About the only thing we could plan around here right now is our feet in the mud :(  Its suppose to hit 69 here today but sunny and windy so with any luck it will dry up so we can get something done. 

I haven't been able to cut a log in two weeks and its started to get to me.  :'(
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: joasis on March 02, 2008, 12:40:35 PM
Really windy here today, 76, and looking at T Storms.

I cut the pad for the new home yesterday....no phone, just me and my crawler.... ;)
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 02, 2008, 09:59:38 PM
Well, I only got 250 planted, ooutof a thousand.  Man, I have not done tis for 25 years.  I am a bit muscle sore, to say the least.  Swinging a hoedad for several hours in a row is harder than it would seem.  This afternoon, I quit at around three and decided to play with the D5 and clean up some roads and trails, until five and then I rearranged a couple of slash piles to burn in the near future.  I almost fell asleep in my supper. 
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 02, 2008, 10:12:55 PM
I cant imagine getting 250 trees planted in a day. I assume they are 1-2 year old saplings?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 03, 2008, 07:05:17 AM
They are what we call 1 0s.  The range in height from about 18" to 12" from the ground line.  I am just waiting for light enough to begin again, this moring.  I guess I am trying to sneek up on them, since I have been up since 4 this morning.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: joasis on March 03, 2008, 07:09:14 AM
So how long until they can be harvested for lumber?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 03, 2008, 07:55:28 AM
About 25 to 30 years, Jay.  I will be about 88, out there with my 36" bar 044, cutting them down.

Thast will be the first thinning.  I will probably come back in ten or fifteen years for another thinning.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: joasis on March 03, 2008, 09:15:05 AM
As I said before, I am impressed with your stewardship of the land. :)
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 03, 2008, 11:27:42 PM
Our hats off to you Frank!  You make us proud!
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 04, 2008, 08:57:24 AM
Well, my main planting crew is to arrive this afternoon.  The fella in charge is the husband of a long past student (about 35 years ago) and his helper is a past student and son of a past student.  The younger, (Seth) is 24 this year.  His father was a student, 37 years ago.

Another proud day to have been an educator.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 04, 2008, 03:04:04 PM
I guess in the small town environment everyone is a past student! :D
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 04, 2008, 03:16:03 PM
No, just the ones that walked through the classroom door for the year. :laugh:
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: mike p on March 04, 2008, 06:59:38 PM
so what did you teach frank
i used to teach Auto Body
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 04, 2008, 08:19:13 PM
Mike, I tought 7th grade for 30 years; Social Studies (Western Civ.) English, and Literature.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 04, 2008, 08:59:45 PM
English and Literature.  I would have never guessed that  ;D ;)
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 04, 2008, 09:09:33 PM
Neither did my high school lit and English teachers. ::)
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 05, 2008, 10:14:58 PM
The planters got in around 4,000 trees, today.  A couple more days and they will be finished.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: mike p on March 06, 2008, 07:41:38 AM
AHHH the tree gods love you frank
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 06, 2008, 08:22:15 AM
And someday the grandkids, I hope.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 06, 2008, 09:46:17 PM
Well, the planters have a total of 4,500 trees in the ground.  They began as soon as they cound find the ground with a shovel, this moring. 
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 07, 2008, 10:13:54 PM
Everyone will be finished by Monday.  I have around 500 Pine left and will get most of them in this weekend.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 12, 2008, 05:17:59 PM
So did you Get-R-Dun Frank  ;)
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 12, 2008, 08:30:58 PM
Nope!  The 8,000 Douglas Fir is in the ground as of about one o'clock this afternoon.  I still have around 150 Pine to plant.  What a job!  Like I said earlier, I have not swung a hoedad for 25 years.  I have a few renewed muscle issues, for sure.  Perhaps all will be planted by this weekend.


I have asround 2,000 Douglas Fir from last year that are rather large in the root systems and I want to sell them.  Any takers.  I will take a loss of sesven and a half cents apeace, if you want any.  I will let them go for twenty cents each, plus shipping.  You can also come around and get what you want.

Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 12, 2008, 10:35:21 PM
I wish it would grow here.  I would take them all.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 13, 2008, 07:30:43 AM
Have you ever tried growing some?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 13, 2008, 08:01:25 AM
No I havent.  I will do some checking on the zone I live in versus campatability and let you know. 
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 14, 2008, 09:36:16 AM
Let me know real soon.  They need to be in the ground.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: joasis on March 14, 2008, 05:12:29 PM
How would they be shipped Frank? I wouldn't mind planting a few dozen to see how they would do....just for fun.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 14, 2008, 07:07:14 PM
Jay, I would wrap them in plastic bags along with some official Tanglewood Timber Tree Farm Pacific Northwest rain wet sawdust, then in a cardboard box, lined with plastic.

I just completed planting another 50 trees and have 75 to a hundred left.  They cost me about $.35 each.

If anyone else is interested in some Pine, please let me know soon, as I have to get the remainer in the ground in the next couple of days.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 15, 2008, 10:00:16 PM
Mr. Allen, your 30 Douglas Fir plug seedlings are on their way.  They left here around 10:30 this morning, via UPS.  I was told they should arrive next Friday.  They are wrapped in a heavy carboard box, inside of a clear plast bag.  They then are in 3 plastic bags of 10 each.

Shipping was $26.46.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 16, 2008, 08:30:49 AM
Your a Good Man Frank! 
Thanks
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 16, 2008, 10:33:33 AM
Hey ya Jay, what say ye on the pine?  I have to get the remaining in today.  I do not want to pull any up after I plant them.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: joasis on March 16, 2008, 01:25:08 PM
Well..I think they will grow here, but fruit trees are on the agenda for the only spot we could plant them...bu I was considering it. Thanks for the offer though.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 16, 2008, 02:04:11 PM
They are all planted, Pine and Fir, for this year.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Stevem on March 16, 2008, 05:32:25 PM
Just in time for the dry weather!
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 16, 2008, 08:48:37 PM
Dry weather?  What planet are you responding from, this afternoon.  Right now it is blacker than a cat to the South of here and it is going to get really wet.  Been spitting all afternoon.  Just finished reloading the kiln for another 2 week charge of Douglas Fir 5/4 x 4 for flooring and paneling.   This load is all 12' long material.  Last load was all 10' long.  About 1,500 board feet.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 17, 2008, 03:08:11 PM
Got an order for 250 Doug Fir seedlings to go to Arizona.  I have packed about 190 so far and will do the remainder in just a bit.  Had an e-mail from an area just Northwest of me about 20 miles for 500 more.  I might have to go in the business for next year. ;D

In fact, the Arizona order may lead into more varities than just the Fir for the coming year.   ;D
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: joasis on March 17, 2008, 05:30:43 PM
When you are planting, and I know this probably is dependent on soil conditions, etc., what kind of spacing or area to you try to maintain? I have seen tree plantations in Louisiana and Mississippi where they looked to be pretty densely  planted.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 17, 2008, 10:17:22 PM
I had the planters, on this planting, space them 8 to 10 feet, Jay.  I tried to space the pine on a spacing of no less than 8 feet.  I have a great deal of deer damage around here and chose that distance for helping keep the loss spread out.  With a Southern land exposure being another for more direct sunlight as another factor in loss control.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: adk patroller on March 18, 2008, 07:26:09 PM
Frank,

What kind of time frame are you looking at for financial and/or silvicultural maturity on the Pine and DF?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 18, 2008, 11:59:55 PM
Adk, the first thinning will probably take place in about 25 years.  I will be 88 and out there with my 044 and its 36" bar, cutting away. ;D
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 19, 2008, 08:11:45 AM
Frank my grandfather was still bailing hay at 92 so running a saw at 88 is not to hard to believe!
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 19, 2008, 09:20:37 AM
Ya, and my biggest problem will be Alice out there trying to watch over me, unlike now.  Now she leaves me alone.  I just hope it stays that way at 88. :angel:
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: adk patroller on March 19, 2008, 01:16:37 PM
Frank,

Will there be any merchantable timber at the 25 year thinning?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 19, 2008, 10:18:54 PM
Adk, yes there wil some merch timber at 25 years.  How much, I am not sure on the Pine.  As to the Douglas Fir, there may be as much as 25 to 30 percent that will be merch at that age.  Some of the determination may well be the market at that time.  Right now, the market is very hot for that age of material, in our area.  It is called chip and saw.  The price is by the ton, at $56 last week.  I have not checked this weeks prices.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 20, 2008, 07:42:01 AM
Your lucky to get $7 a ton for chip/pulp around these parts.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 22, 2008, 09:40:36 AM
Got the Firs today Frank!  Thanks!
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 22, 2008, 12:26:10 PM

Were they in pretty good shape?  I hope so. ;D
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 22, 2008, 02:17:27 PM
Havent broke open the box yet.  They should be fine.  Temps are 35 today so figured I would plant them in a day or so when its a "little" warmer.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 28, 2008, 11:34:15 AM
You need to get them in the ground, unless is frozen.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 28, 2008, 09:24:20 PM
DONE!  ;)
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 28, 2008, 09:29:20 PM
 Thank you!  What kind of spacing did you use, when planting?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on March 28, 2008, 10:56:26 PM
14 feet
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 29, 2008, 07:27:53 AM
That will give them plenty of room.  Out here, for reforestations purposes, we are required to plant on at least a 12' spacing.  For my job this year, we planted on an eight and ten foot spacing.
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: adk patroller on March 29, 2008, 05:29:57 PM
Farnk,

I asked since I tend to be a hardwood cutter and after 25-30 years it is just TSI work in an even age stand, but it has to be done!
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on March 29, 2008, 08:42:44 PM
I am not good on acronims.  TSI is? ???
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: adk patroller on March 30, 2008, 10:49:43 AM
 
Quote from: Frank Pender on March 29, 2008, 08:42:44 PM
I am not good on acronims.  TSI is? ???
Timber Stand Improvement.....I think you may call it thinning?
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on April 03, 2008, 09:02:32 AM
Ok.  AS I mentioned in another thred, I had a group of FFA students come around on Wednesday for about 3 and a half hours.  What an experience. 

Anyway, they have offed to come backs next fall to help with any fill in that needs to be done on the Firs or Pines that may not make it for one reason or another. The "another" may be the number of dear hanging around right now.  Alice and the St. Bernard scared up 6 yesterday afternoon.  They have been talking to one another about the fresh plantings of Pine and Fir.  I NEED a crossbow! :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on April 03, 2008, 05:56:42 PM
How bad do you want one Frank?  Or, Buzz and I could make a road trip out and thin the herd with our compound bows ;D
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Stevem on April 04, 2008, 10:08:09 AM
Back strap on a willow stick over an oak camp fire and cold refreshments!

I'll bring and knife and to hell with a pig roast.

Stevem
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on April 04, 2008, 11:20:38 AM
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Had to wipe the coffee off the key board :laugh:

Buzz and I are ready! 
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" on August 16, 2008, 09:41:40 PM
Now the herd is a single family of one doe and three fawns.  They come right through the log yard and by the mill and sawdust pile, headed for a couple apple trees. 
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: mike p on August 17, 2008, 06:57:53 PM
ahhhhh apple fed venesion very gooooooooood
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Kirk Allen on August 20, 2008, 09:33:15 PM
Mix corn and beans with that apple diet and you have a real meal!
Title: Re: Valley Pondarosa Pine
Post by: Buzz Sawyer on August 23, 2008, 02:41:27 PM
I had top deer sirloin basted with olive oil italian seasonings and onion powder flame kissed over hickory chunks................for lunch OH MY :P :P