Post by: John B on October 05, 2017, 08:40:10 PM
I have a Cooks Cat's claw sharpener. It looks like it would not take much to convert it to CBN.
1.) It looks like i would have to fabricate a new cam. I can make a new cam but if someone is already making one, it may be easier just to purchase one.
2.) Figure out how to mount the CBN wheel. The arbor is mounted on pillow block bearings. I can figure this one out.
3.) Add oil cooling. Any do's or don'ts?
Am I missing anything?
I am open to everyone's input.
Thank You,
John B
Post by: Kirk Allen on October 05, 2017, 09:07:35 PM
Don't know if WM sells the conversion in the US yet or not.
Post by: xlogger on October 06, 2017, 05:02:43 AM
Post by: bandmiller2 on October 06, 2017, 07:32:40 AM
Post by: Ox on October 06, 2017, 11:10:42 AM
In short, if you bought a thing or two through Cutting Edge I think he would probably be glad to help you as long as you have at least a little mechanical aptitude.
Post by: Stevem on October 08, 2017, 01:47:26 PM
They say there is no need for a different cams because there's is adjustable.
Post by: jb griffin on October 08, 2017, 05:39:04 PM
Makes sense don't it.
Can you honestly say that you can perfectly follow the profile of every blade made just by turning a few knobs?
Post by: John B on October 08, 2017, 06:35:58 PM
Like the fact that oil will be getting on the rubber drive belt.
I took a look at mine tonight, and at least on the version that I have, there is plenty of room for a shield between the cbn wheel and the belt.
Post by: Ox on October 08, 2017, 07:00:45 PM
Maybe if you can get an airtight seal for a guard it would be okay. Maybe the belt won't get very much spray and it'll last a surprisingly long time. I don't know. But at this stage in my life I think I'm not going to go down this road because it'll be diminishing returns for me. I'm half crippled and only getting worse, so my milling and forestry type work will be slowing down, including my blade sharpening. The guys I sharpen for are sometimes busy where I got blades brought in every week or so and sometimes I don't see them for months so no big deal there.
I'm still following this, though. It's absolutely doable without a question.
Post by: John B on October 08, 2017, 07:53:23 PM
What about just putting a CBN wheel on my TimberKing sharpener?
They say there is no need for a different cams because there's is adjustable.
The cbn wheel contacts the tooth face, gullet, and back of the next tooth all at once; then lifts up high enough for the next tooth to advance underneath it.
You can test the TK sharpener. If you can sharpen the face of a tooth, touch the gullet, while it it is adjusted to pick the wheel up high enough so that you do not grind any part of the next tooth with room to spare, it may work. Remember that the width of your cbn is going to be the same as your tooth spacing (usually 7/8" or 1").
The entire wheel needs to clear the advancing tooth.
Post by: John B on October 08, 2017, 08:34:15 PM
I think it's more the fact that there will be an oil mist produced which will eventually deteriorate the rubber drive belt. This is what I got from my conversation with Cutting Edge. I think he was talking about chasing down a neoprene belt or something like that.
Maybe if you can get an airtight seal for a guard it would be okay. Maybe the belt won't get very much spray and it'll last a surprisingly long time. I don't know. But at this stage in my life I think I'm not going to go down this road because it'll be diminishing returns for me. I'm half crippled and only getting worse, so my milling and forestry type work will be slowing down, including my blade sharpening. The guys I sharpen for are sometimes busy where I got blades brought in every week or so and sometimes I don't see them for months so no big deal there.
I'm still following this, though. It's absolutely doable without a question.
Keeping the oil away from the belt is the easy part.
My plan is to cut a circle from 3/32" plate in the lathe, then cut it in half. I'll need to weld a 11"/32" spacer to the bottom of it, Drill a hole in the center of it, and tack weld it in place. Depending on how confident I am, I can either install a cup for a felt seal, or a lip seal around the shaft.
I would seal the outer circumference with something like 3M 5200.
Post by: Ox on October 09, 2017, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: bandmiller2 on October 09, 2017, 07:28:36 PM
Post by: jb griffin on October 09, 2017, 07:39:30 PM
Post by: jb griffin on October 09, 2017, 07:44:50 PM
Post by: 4x4American on October 09, 2017, 08:08:08 PM
Post by: Cutting Edge Saw Svc. on October 10, 2017, 06:37:44 AM
Can a Cooks sharpener be converted ?... Yes, BUT, there are some things you need to consider.
1. Cooks sharpeners have MASSIVE inconsistencies from one sharpener to the next. No two machines are identical. This is the reason I have abandon the project of manufacturing a CBN conversion kit for them.
2. EVERY machine I have either used, rebuilt, serviced, etc. had problems with consistent tooth indexing OR LACK THEREOF. A machine HAS to have the tooth indexed PRECISELY and EVERY TIME, no exceptions.
3. A CBN wheel has to have coolant. It has been proven that certain AG mineral oil will work, Food Grade mineral oil is even better. Water based/oil emulsion is NOT sufficient and has several drawbacks. FACT - The oil WM markets as "coolant" is one of the WORST to use on any CBN coated tooling. The correct mineral oil is nothing more than unscented baby oil with a slightly higher viscosity.
4. Motor/mandrel drive HAS to be converted to a cog or timing belt style. Also has to be oil resistant to prevent de-lamination/deterioration of the belt itself. An "oil slinger" as you are proposing will not prevent migration of oil into, onto the belt drive system. It would slow it down, but not prevent the inevitable.
5. The cam is a matter entirely in itself. I manufacture CNC cams for Cooks machines, which has given me a tremendous amount of feedback from customers. I have spent an enormous amount of time helping people with their machines... refer to back to #1. The cam has to have a certain profile and be accurate within thousandths of an inch.
6. Cost... well, it ain't going to be cheap, even on a DIY scale.... another reason I abandon making a CBN conversion kit. I never could get the price to a point where I thought is was a good value AND be profitable. Any profit to my business would be eaten up by doing Tech Support on the phone FIXING the customer's machine BEFORE said "kit" would perform correctly. The ONLY way I would do a conversion would be to have the machine here onsite. Refer back to #1, #2, & #5.
Will a Cooks machine sharpen blades right out of the box ?? Kinda/sorta. Depends on your expectaions of blade performance.
Will it do it with any sort of consistency and accuracy out of the box?? Maybe.
Can the machine be made to work "well" out of the box ?? Yes, with a decent mechanical background and ALOT of patience. Every machine is unique. Could be decent, could be a red boat anchor.
Would I recommend a person purchase one ?? NO!
I personally have approx 8 hrs of re-work in my Cooks sharpener. This was required to fix the above problems BEFORE I would even trust it to grind a blade of my own, let alone one for a customer. Near new machine that sits idle 99% of the time and only gets used for blades with "special needs".
Does it now work and grind blades with acceptable precision, Yes. But using it in a professional operation is not cost effective nor efficient.
Post by: bandmiller2 on October 10, 2017, 07:36:23 AM
Post by: Cutting Edge Saw Svc. on October 10, 2017, 08:42:48 AM
I should have included the following info in my previous post:
Based on the machines I have personally had my hands on...
The older machines are noticeably better in build quality, consistency and precision. I assume you've had yours for several years and it may be one of said vintage. Sounds like thi may be the case.
EVERY one that has been approx. 7 years and newer are visibly "poor". Welds are pith poor, holes drilled inaccurate and components aren't even close to having what many would consider being "aligned". It is what it is. IMO, it would be luck of the draw to purchase a new/newer machine.
To many people have contacted me needing help because Cooks couldn't/wouldn't provide the tech support they needed. Almost every time I have spoken with someone, Cooks (Marcie) would blame their problems on them, the operator, when it was usually an issue with the machine itself. They can flat out be rude about it and will literally lie to a person to cover their own hind-end. :-\ Is it my responsibility to fix their fudge up w/ no financial gain to myself ? ... NO ! >:( But at times I feel obligated to help a person whom is at their wits end and is in desperate need of good information.
As far as grinding wheels are concerned, to each their own. But many, myself included, only run the pink grinding stones for several reasons. There is a little science behind why they work better.
Post by: Ox on October 10, 2017, 09:37:38 AM
Post by: bandmiller2 on October 10, 2017, 03:37:42 PM
Post by: Cutting Edge Saw Svc. on October 10, 2017, 06:40:24 PM
In My Opinion...
Best grinder currently available and best value too - WM BMS 250. Not a perfect machine, but when you compare it to a Cooks, the choice is pretty clear. A slightly higher cost, but 10x better quality and performance.
If looking at the used market:
Wright W37 - Dry Grinder and setup can be finicky, but once it's spot on you're good to go. Well built, durable platform w/ precision fit components. Cams are pricey but VERY well machined and worth the investment.
WM LTAGA Shop Series CBN - Older machine, and somewhat under powered. But for the smaller operator, a very effective and well built machine. With a quality CBN wheel (not from WM), the performance is significantly better and helps the little 12V Leeson run alot cooler.
Post by: xlogger on October 11, 2017, 04:29:22 AM
Ricky
Post by: Ox on October 11, 2017, 09:47:28 AM
Post by: bandmiller2 on January 02, 2018, 07:06:02 AM
Post by: Ox on January 02, 2018, 09:58:12 AM