Sawmill and Timber

Sawmills and Sawing => Bandsaw Mills => Topic started by: Ox on September 19, 2019, 04:49:59 PM

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Title: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 19, 2019, 04:49:59 PM
Where the mill used to sit and logs from last year that still need milling.  Front porch on left was built last year and back porch on right was built year before that.  I think it makes the little place look a bit better.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204255-1523170.jpeg)

Sitting in my old rocker on front porch looking to the north.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919205101-15521214.jpeg)

I don't think many people build this way.  Do they?  I like it because it's unusual and rugged too.  Reminds me of a more modern way of post and beam construction maybe?  I have no idea.  Opinions are welcome.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919205101-15511125.jpeg)

View across the road off to the north - neighbors have a corn maze in there and it's loud and busy on weekends.  :-\  I'm a hermit and like my privacy and quiet.  But I can't knock someone for trying to "save the farm" and make some money.  Only a few more years....then we'll be in the southern promised lands.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204255-15242283.jpeg)

Bringing hemlock logs through to new "saw yard".  Kinda close, eh?

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204255-15271421.jpeg)

The old 'hoe.  1964 Oliver 1600 with Parsons loader and backhoe.  Those are semi truck tires on the front - comes like this from the factory.  She's a rugged old thing and likely one of the biggest ones available back in the day.  I rebuilt the 265 Waukesha diesel about 10 years ago.  Lots of hoses, hydraulic pump, tires, etc.  I'll never get my money back out of her, but ya can't win them all.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204255-15281693.jpeg)

Little Suzuki PE175 my daughter and I rebuilt and repowered with a 6.5 hp Predator and torque converter transmission.  She rides the hell out of it and it's doing quite well.  Had to cut and remake some frame at the front, but that was all besides all new bearings and brakes and stuff like that.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204255-15252171.jpeg)


Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 19, 2019, 05:26:24 PM
Not sure the limit on a single post so here's the continuation of things:

Here's a hemlock beam fresh off the new and improved mill.  Straight and true and I'm a happy hillbilly.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-1529449.jpeg)

Same beam.  Flat.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-15301083.jpeg)

Power pack location.  6.5 hp engine driving a hydraulic pump behind the shield and turning a 24V alternator as well.  Tank to the right, twin batteries in series to the left.  To the far left are the channel irons for power station and seat, top and bottom respectively.  Pipe (EMT conduit) on bottom right is the height gauge for the backstops.  As long as the blade is at 6" and backstops are showing 5" it won't hit.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-15312024.jpeg)

Backstop height gauge from operator's seat.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204817-1536634.jpeg)

Seat and power station.  They both swing in and over behind the mill for transport.  Somewhat adjustable up and down too.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-1532588.jpeg)

Power station.  Potentiometers for both forward/reverse and up/down.  Digital displays make repeated speeds easy.  Hydraulic levers from left to right are loader up/down, clamp in/out, clamp up/down, turner up/down, turner forward/reverse, and backstops up/down.  Pressure relief set at around 1000 psi and little engine is just putting at around 2200 rpm or so.  Uses very little gas.  Max height used to be around 31" or so, but is less now at 26 1/2" because of interference with cable for cable run, but can be back to normal with longer main drive belts for main engines that will allow outside engine to clear all obstacles.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-15332274.jpeg)

28 is a good sawing speed so far, using Kasco .045 4 degree blades bought through Richard at Cutting Edge Saw Service.  Best blades I've ever used, hands down.  I wonder if Jeff Brokaw is "seething" seeing this free advertising?  lol  Couldn't help myself, please forgive me fellas.  :laugh:

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-15451695.jpeg)

Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 19, 2019, 05:32:33 PM
On we go:

View from operator's station ready to load a hemlock log.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-15342428.jpeg)

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-154673.jpeg)

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-15471719.jpeg)

Using chain turner to get "horns up" for first cut.  I set loader down so it's level for handy table to set flitches and boards on.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-15481963.jpeg)

Clamped and ready to cut.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-1549609.jpeg)

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919205101-1550258.jpeg)

Turner and clamp.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204457-15342428.jpeg)

Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 19, 2019, 05:46:06 PM
Just a little more.  I promised you guys I'd get pics up eventually, so here they are in all their glory!  Or in all their......something.......

I started updated the mill in the beginning of Feb. and finished the beginning of Sept.  It's been a long and arduous ordeal.  I've had to re-do so many things from dyslexia problems it made me sick.  Many thanks to Richard at Cutting Edge for his insight and opinions from himself having built a homemade automated mill and his experience servicing others' sawmills.  Your ideas and opinions helped me alot, Richard.  Thanks, bud.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204458-15351881.jpeg)



(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204817-15371064.jpeg)

Showing twin engine drive system.  Belts aren't bouncing around and run very smooth.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204817-15381922.jpeg)

No more tarping!  Keeps rain off the most expensive bits...

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204817-1539612.jpeg)

Chain log turner.  Used #80 chain for teeth to weld to and #60 chain from gear motor to drive it.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204817-15401381.jpeg)

2 plane clamp.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204817-15411509.jpeg)

Just a front view.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204818-1542411.jpeg)

Backstops.  They have since been welded up, gusseting the attachment points.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-15431472.jpeg)

Updated adjustable guide arm.  No more vibration.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919204941-1544712.jpeg)

My buggy for getting around in woods, cutting logs, and carrying stuff to/from the mill.  Boxes made from red maple cut and sawed by yours truly.

(http://sawmillandtimberforum.com/gallery/1/1027-100919205101-1553365.jpeg)
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: joasis on September 20, 2019, 07:37:46 AM
Looks good, how did you do the pictures?
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 20, 2019, 09:26:58 AM
lol  I ended up using a free drag-n-click picture resizing thing online.

reduceimages.com

I couldn't get the other programs others have used to work.  I guess I'm just not that good at it.  The way I used (thanks to my 17 year boy's suggestion) was tedious but easy.  Simply open your picture folder and then open the program and have them both side by side on your screen and drag the picture you want to mess with into the box and tell it to what percentage you want it to be reduced to.  It's a guessing game, but keep guessing until you're under 70kb.  Then move that resized image into another folder to be used later, like loading into the forum (my gallery).



Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Crusarius on September 20, 2019, 05:16:17 PM
Ox, the place looks great. The sawmill mods look great to. If I can find someone to buy V1.0 I will build V2.0 that will include hydraulics and a cantilever head.

What was the idea behind running the 2 engines?
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 20, 2019, 08:13:51 PM
Thanks for the compliments.

Two engines was more cost effective after already owning the one engine.  I ended up with at least 26 hp and I forget the torque numbers, but it was all better than running the single v twin from Predator.  If I was starting from scratch and looking for just a single engine I'd probably just stick with the v twin by itself but I was starting with an already running mill and a good proven engine.  Plus the fact that I've never seen a twin engine sawmill before and I love doing unusual things.  I love being different than most everybody else.  Always been that way...  maybe because the path less traveled has more character and isn't beat down to a boring dirt strip...
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Crusarius on September 21, 2019, 07:21:40 AM
I see the other engine for the hydraulics. I would have thought you would have taken small drive engine to power hydraulics then just got a new big engine.

What you did works though. You notice the extra power when cutting?
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 21, 2019, 09:00:49 AM
You betcha.  It's like night and day.  I can crowd it and get both governors to open a touch and she just pulls and pulls that blade with no worries.  No wavy cuts from rpm changes.  It's amazing after having just 13 hp for the last 4 years.  HP really is one of the best things you can do for a mill.

Total cost for both engines was around $850.  I can't find a new horizontal shaft 26 hp engine anywhere for that money.  I've always thought the engines feel more like a 15 hp, and others on the internet say and think the same, so it's possible I might be close to 30 hp in reality.  It's great.  I'm glad I did it.  Yes, there was extra cost for another clutch and pulley and idler and belt, but it's totally worth it in the end.

The only drawback I can see right now is perhaps gasoline usage.  I now don't idle down in between cuts so the engines stay full throttle the whole time I'm milling a log up but I idle them down when I'm loading a new log.  Someday I might look into some throttle control solenoids or something.  We'll see.  I also want to get some powered toe boards in the mill someday.  Maybe next year - we'll see what happens.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Crusarius on September 21, 2019, 09:33:00 AM
do what I did and mount a remote throttle handle. Just have to run 2 cables to it.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 21, 2019, 01:30:57 PM
I've got 2 remote throttles running them, one for each.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: furu on September 25, 2019, 11:40:20 AM
I am VERY IMPRESSED.

Nice job on the pictures but that is nothing compared to the job you did on the mill. 
That is amazing workmanship and design.
A mill that you can be very proud of having built.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 25, 2019, 02:02:56 PM
Thank you for the nice words!
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: A.O. on September 25, 2019, 08:56:24 PM
Just found this.. Very nice all the way around Ox!!

Your whole place looks great! Nice mill! how the heck do you push it back and forth if you are sitting down??  ;D

Do you have any trouble synchronizing those two motors to run the same speed??

Again, very nice job on the pics and the mill!!
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: A.O. on September 25, 2019, 08:58:09 PM
Oh... what southern promised lands are you looking to move to?
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 26, 2019, 09:42:58 AM
Thanks for the compliment!

I use a long stick and push the carriage from my seated position.  It's a copy of a long boathook so I can pull it back to me after the cut.  (Now I don't have a wiseass joke for how I raise the head after a cut....)  Ummmmm.........I raise the head at the end of a cut using magic and liberals' tears.

Only a little trouble synchronizing the engines.  I first adjusted them to an equal rpm before I belted them up, but then one engine pulled a bit more than the other in real world conditions and make the lagging one pop and backfire a bit while run top speed, no load conditions.  I simply turned the popping engine's governor up a bit to compensate.  All is well.  My biggest problem is the slow wah...wah.....wah.... harmonics buildup of two engines running.  It's impossible to get them perfectly together without computer controls.  When they "wah" together it rattles the guards pretty bad and makes a hell of a racket.  I've installed some over center locking snap clips to tighten the guards up but it didn't do as well as I had hoped.  Next step is adding some inner tube rubber to the contact points and see what happens.  I actually ran it a little while with the guards off, in the beginning, because of the racket but the nervousness it created for me knowing how a blade acts when it breaks stopped that after about an hour.  I'll get it quieted down (relative statement).

Another "problem" is the geometry of the chain log turner.  I would prefer it to be further inboard and a bit lower but I'm not redoing it again.  It was hard enough to get it where it's at.  It's been redone 4 or 5 times now and I'm done with it.  It's usable, just a bit more messing around than I would like.  So be it.  Better than doing it all by hand every time.  My biggest like of this updated mill is the backstops.  I used Richard Thompson's design (Cutting Edge) and it's by far the biggest time saver over the original style.

Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: A.O. on September 26, 2019, 10:35:12 AM
So are your backstops all connected then and raised and lowered hydraulically?

And yes, I turn all my logs manually with a cant hook.. must be a better way but I've no hydraulics and might look into options at some point.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 26, 2019, 05:22:42 PM
Yes to the backstops.  They originally were individually set by hand.  Which required walking around to the other side of the mill and standing in however high the sawdust pile was.  It got harder and harder to do.  And extremely time consuming.

I too handled everything but the loading by hand.  I ended up using the hoe for loading toward the end before updating the mill.  I think the log rolling with a cant hook (Logrite for the win here) was one of the things I least minded doing.  I don't know why.  Maybe the simple joy of using a good tool which makes the whole process that much more enjoyable.  Try to explain that simple little pleasure to a city slicker - they'd try to have you committed!

Another thing I hated doing was the cranking up and down.  Tore up my already bad shoulders.  I like flipping a switch and turning a dial.  Simple things for simple minds...
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: A.O. on September 26, 2019, 06:35:09 PM
I don't mind the cant hook work either.. till I reach the edge of my strength on a larger log. And I've had both my shoulders done also.

And yeah, I have to walk around to the other side of the saw to set my stops, not a whole lot of saw dust as I remove it everyday after sawing.. still gets a little deep though..

I agree with the cranking up and down.. its a pain, but its what I have... 
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 27, 2019, 08:18:27 AM
Had an older guy tell me once we all end up having to spend money on our bodies as we age.  Either spend it at the doc's getting fixed up and meds or spending it on our machinery/gadgets/toys/whatever so we can still do what we want without going to the doc's.  Made sense.  I try to stay away from the doc's as much as possible, so you can see where my money went this last round.  Hopefully now we can hammer out the mortgage because after medical bills and the wife's college loan being paid off finally, the mortgage is the last thing to go.

I just realized I never answered your question.  Our "promised land" looks to be Tennessee.  I plan to find a small farm and grow grade A alfalfa for the crazy horse people in Florida.  Them folks will pay just about anything for their precious equines as long as it's "top quality" because nothing is too good for them.  I found one place in FL that sells hay and I pretended to be a buyer and would come along in my semi and box trailer to get 650 bales.  Was told they don't have straight alfalfa, just alfalfa and orchard grass mix, that it was $12 a bale and that I can't pick up, that they have to deliver and it would be $2 a mile for that.  I about fell over.  I had my stuff slated (while penciling out costs vs. sales to see if my plan is viable or even worth doing) at $8 a bale and could make some decent money on 100 acres! 
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: A.O. on September 27, 2019, 08:44:13 AM
Thanks for the compliment!

I use a long stick and push the carriage from my seated position.  It's a copy of a long boathook so I can pull it back to me after the cut.  (Now I don't have a wiseass joke for how I raise the head after a cut....)  Ummmmm.........I raise the head at the end of a cut using magic and liberals' tears.

So... Are you any good at videos?? I'd love to see that in action!!! >:D

Need any help milking those liberals of their tears?? I'd love to help.. before they ruin the world!
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on September 27, 2019, 02:02:16 PM
Video?  No.  Sorry.  I had enough messing around getting pics up.  This mill ain't no different than any other automated mill out there.  Same thing.  Sounds the same, cutting speed is the same.  Actually, mine is a bit more clumsy when it comes to turning and squaring up the log.  I'm thinking of mounting a mirror somewhere so I can see the back side of the log to see if it's square with the backstops.  That's the only drawback to sitting where I sit - can't see the log/backstop interface and so have to get up and walk around to see if it's square for the next cut.  I'm starting to wonder if I shouldn't have just made the operating station right at the back of the mill so I can just lean left or right to see what I need to see.  But I wanted to get away from the engine noise, heat, and sawdust.  Pros and cons, pros and cons.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: A.O. on September 27, 2019, 02:29:49 PM
But I wanted to see that boathook thingy in action!! ;D
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: furu on October 06, 2019, 03:32:04 PM
Was told they don't have straight alfalfa, just alfalfa and orchard grass mix, that it was $12 a bale and that I can't pick up, that they have to deliver and it would be $2 a mile for that.  I about fell over.  I had my stuff slated (while penciling out costs vs. sales to see if my plan is viable or even worth doing) at $8 a bale and could make some decent money on 100 acres! 

Wow!!

Growing up in Oklahoma we had 40 acres in Alfalfa and some Timothy grass in another 40 acre field.
Timothy went for $0.30 to $0.35 per bale.  The high quality alfalfa (no weed no grass) went for $0.65 a bale.
I know there has been inflation but that is quite an increase in pricing.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on October 07, 2019, 07:49:38 AM
Yes, it certainly is!

I remember picking up hay for our goats at .75 a bale back in the early 90s.  Just within the last 5 years we paid $1 a bale for just voluntary grass hay that was all headed out, first cutting, for a stupid horse the girls kept around here.  When I heard what alfalfa hay can go for it made me think, let me tell ya. 

I think marketing is going to be my biggest hurdle since people confuse and piss me off.  I might consider going with a hay broker.  I'll see how things go when I get there.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on October 11, 2019, 01:55:29 PM
Update on the update:

The twin engines pull a blade like no tomorrow and saw great.  But the harmonics buildup is going to tear the mill apart.  It's gotten worse since I started and there just isn't the room to mechanically tie the two engines together 180 degrees stroke cycle apart.  I'm down to a single 13 hp and I hate it.  I will be putting on a Predator 22 hp and associated clutch sometime when cash flow catches back up.  The two 13 hp engines will be put in storage until I get a service truck up and running on the "new" farm we end up at. 

Everything else that was done and built for the update is working fine and I'm pretty happy with things.  I had to replace the forward/reverse switches that came with the control boards but that only took maybe an hour with all the heat shrink and soldering and such. 

All in all not too bad so far.  Oh, and I have to replace a bandwheel belt on the idle side because it's becoming delaminated at the joint and it'll start flopping soon.  Went with the Woodmizer b57 belts because they're recommended by Richard at Cutting Edge.  They don't have a seam joint and last a long time with the correct profile as well.  Can't expect a Rolls Royce at Chevy prices, right?  They're about $14 plus shipping.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Crusarius on October 12, 2019, 09:06:18 AM
are you belts from the engines different lengths? I was thinking you could rotate the crank on one engine till you get the harmonics balanced between the two. Unfortunately if they are not the same that will not work well.

Could always run both engines to a jackshaft then single drive belt to the wheel. May be able to balance them then.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on October 13, 2019, 07:48:29 AM
There are probably half a dozen different ways to achieve engine balancing by hard tying them together but I'm done throwing money that I don't really have at experiments, know what I mean?  If money was no object it would be fun.

The problem with trying to tie engines together with belts is it's impossible without having cogged belts.  V belts inherently slip a little.  Same thing with centrifugal clutches.  At this point it's just not worth pursuing any further, at least to me.  I never dreamed that the harmonic buildup would be so bad and nasty.  I expected a little, but this is ungodly.  These engines will come off and be saved for a rainy day and a bigger single will go on and things will be better.  Maybe next month....
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Crusarius on October 13, 2019, 09:36:36 AM
that works need to build go-karts :)
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: kbeitz on October 27, 2019, 08:14:40 AM
If you drive the axles of a differential and feed off the drive shaft then
both engines don't even need to run at the same speed but both will
pull.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: kbeitz on October 27, 2019, 08:16:44 AM
Old bumper jacks with a cant hook hook makes great log rollers/turners.
Title: Re: Show and tell, 2019, newly updated mill
Post by: Ox on October 28, 2019, 08:24:39 AM
If you drive the axles of a differential and feed off the drive shaft then
both engines don't even need to run at the same speed but both will
pull.

That's an idea I haven't thought of.  Interesting concept for sure.  And totally would work.  Good thinking!

I'm still going with a single bigger engine.  It simply simplifies everything.  The last thing that sawhead needs is more weight.