alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description

Author Topic: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????  (Read 62408 times)

Offline caryr

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Topics: 0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2008, 12:19:38 PM »
I personally don't have a problem with people making some money off their investment (time, original idea, etc.). What I do have a problem with is when people are not honest about what the money is actually being used for. I suppose if you consider your job to be website owner then your salary could arguably be part of the costs, though I believe you have to be open and have some reasonable justification for this. How much does the owner really add over the average unpaid moderator and what is this worth? My guess is most of the time this should equate to an extra vacation a year not a living wage!

This site reminds me of treebuzz another well run site.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2008, 02:31:06 PM »
Thanks for the input and feedback caryr.  I too have no problem with a person making money from this type of site but similar to what you said, there should be full disclosure when asking for support.  To tell someone the site is in hurting for cash to stay up an running while taking in far more through sponsors than those costs is wrong. 

I was told that sponsors cover the cost of one site by the owner himself and in the same breath (email) he says its not covering his morgage, truck payment and cost of living.  Well if you going to ask for money and do it regulary its only right to let people know its not just for covering server costs and keeping the site up but its also for his morgage, truck payment, costs of living, hunting trips, cabin in the woods etc.  Full Disclosure.  I wish our politicians knew what that meant. 
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Buzz Sawyer

  • Global Moderator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 2193
  • Topics: 9
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2008, 08:39:48 PM »
I think sawmillers are an idependent, and creative group ....and somewhat intelligent in a back woods sorta way...... ::) ::) ::) ::)
BUT most of us  dont like someone wizzing on our heads and telling us its raining.......  :o :o :o
likewise I  dont mind at ALL if someone makes money off thier forum....but DO NOT tell me a load of lies and expect me not to seek out the facts.....as to what it REALLY costs to run a Forestry type FORUM

Offline joasis

  • Circle sawyer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Topics: 97
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2008, 10:28:57 PM »
Interestingly enough...Kirk said we could accept a donation, straight to the source, if needed....but we doubt we would ever need such a donation.....when we decided to start this little group, we knew what we wanted...no fees, no lies, no fund raising, and above all, just build a public forum for those who have sawing as a component of their blood. That said, all of us on the starting line are self employed, and as such, can afford this little venture indefinitely...the thought about letting the adds take care of the forum was an afterthought, simply so no one has to "feed the elephant"...and then we discovered just how cheap this really is......the elephant does not exist.....our forum could grow to 2000 active members and we would not be spending more then $6 a month..... :o

Enough said....this place will always be free, in thoughts and ideas, and how much it costs everyone who wishes to enjoy it with us.
Ladwig Construction
Hennessey, Oklahoma
    405 853 1563

If anyone has any issues, I can be reached at the number above, anytime.

Offline caryr

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Topics: 0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2008, 10:36:15 PM »
Some of us are even reasonably intelligent in an Internet/computer sorta way.....

FYI you can see what I have been working on for the last year and a half here www.quantance.com

Cary

Offline caryr

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Topics: 0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2008, 10:43:58 PM »
Probably should add I also became a certified timber faller and a master woodland manager. I'm still working on my mill shed.

Offline joasis

  • Circle sawyer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Topics: 97
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2008, 07:02:44 AM »
Well Cary, you tell us this after the fact? Poor Kirk has bald spots on his head from scratching...figuring out how to make this simple machine work ;D
Ladwig Construction
Hennessey, Oklahoma
    405 853 1563

If anyone has any issues, I can be reached at the number above, anytime.

Offline caryr

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Topics: 0
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2008, 04:02:50 PM »
Well I was a little busy when you guys took this over from Birky. I've never configured SMF, but I played with its predecessor a bit. I've mostly been using Plone a CMS or moin a simple wiki depending on my needs.

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • Topics: 149
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2008, 07:06:31 PM »
WITH ALL THOSE abriations im glad some one else is running this & im just a member
Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
  • Topics: 145
  • Referrals: 12
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2008, 11:34:48 PM »
Welcome to the MWM club, Cary.   You will find as great deal of reward from you classes and from working with folks on their woodlot needs.  I have been involved with the program for a number of years now, and still out there beating the bushes to help out the woodlands owners.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2008, 02:09:05 PM »
Well I was a little busy when you guys took this over from Birky.

Not sure how I missed the last couple posts on this but no time like the present to catch up.

Caryr, the original owner of the Full Vigor Forestry Forum created it in hopes of promoting the ideas and concepts shared by Birky, as he was apparently friends with him.  Paul, the original creator of that site then later sold it to Nathen who changed the name to Saw Mill and Timber.  From that site stemmed pages and pages exposing very questionable actions of another site.  The other site then banned together to intimidate Nathen through threats of legal action for what was being posted. 

Nathen felt it was in his best interest to close that site.  Several of us felt obligated to create a forum that was based on truth and provide an outlet for those who share a common interest in sawdust.

Some have made claims this site was created for the sole purpose of destroying another sawmilling site.  Paranoia is the word that comes to mind.  Its laughable to hear the stories created about this site as to why it exists.  We made a committment to truth, first and for most.  If what we share is not true ANYONE is welcome to publicly dispute it.  Unlike many other sites, Freedom still means something here. 



Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline joasis

  • Circle sawyer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Topics: 97
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2008, 08:05:16 AM »
We are preparing a site upgrade, and going for a new, improved look.  We will offer free adds to those who wish, and that is it. I am pretty sure I know the origin of the complaint, and don't really care....if the complainers choose to be real men, they can call me or contact me....God forbid if they showed any integrity of any kind. One outcome they won't find is this site shutting down for lack of financing....shucks! We all are self employed and could support this site even if it cost the "thousands" that others claim, which is an out and out lie.

The costs are $6 a month, and paid up for 2 years, with money in reserve. Our site upgrade is going to cost a whopping $25......so this is not a big deal. Besides, after carefully considering what the word "free" really means, it should be just that. I don't like commercials when I watch TV, but you can't avoid them...but here we can, with the exception of the banners from those who choose to place them here, also free. The point is, after all, for the exchange of information....not to make a "profit" to pay for a lie and laziness.


Again...open challenge: If any of the "guests" who love to promote their agenda would like to discuss this with me personally, my phone number is 405 853 1563. If one of the "bullies" from another site that wants to intimidate members and maybe advertisers would like to try me out, please, I am available. I know as I type this that men of no integrity who perpetuate a lie will never man up and dare to even take a shot. If someone is reading this, thinking they caused this...then you are in a wishful thinking mode. This site will be operated with the highest of ethics.  Of course, considering I am in Oklahoma, we have a different view of POS cowards.

Now,  off the soap box.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 08:26:59 AM by Kirk Allen »
Ladwig Construction
Hennessey, Oklahoma
    405 853 1563

If anyone has any issues, I can be reached at the number above, anytime.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2008, 09:36:55 AM »
Small correction Jay, it's $5 a month!   ;D
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
  • Topics: 145
  • Referrals: 12
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2008, 10:37:47 PM »
You know, I have been thinking, that if times really get tough around here for paying the bills, I will dip into my social security.  Alice get to spend her ss check any way she likes and I should be able to do the same, right?  Well, I will. :D

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2008, 06:55:51 PM »
Carefull Frank, your talking about "joint" money when its your check ;D :D

Whats hers is hers and whats yours is hers too!  :o :D ;)
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
  • Topics: 145
  • Referrals: 12
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2008, 08:34:55 AM »
Sorry, young man, I am from a different era, or is that ERA.

Offline Murf

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Topics: 2
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2008, 08:39:10 AM »
This whole thread is a real eye-opener to say the least!!  :o

I too was led to believe that the costs were into the many hundreds of dollars per month, and the work load was far in excess of that of a "full time" job, i.e. 40+ hours a week.

In light of the amount of 'labour' dedicated to the operation of such a forum I was led to believe it was necessary to raise a lot of money in order to compensate the people that spent all that time running it.

It seems I was misled.........  :(
Don't blame me for Murphy's Law, I'm a victim too!!!

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
  • Topics: 145
  • Referrals: 12
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2008, 08:58:37 PM »
Murf, do not feel like the Lone Ranger.  Many of us were duped into believing just that.

Being hood winked and then seeing the light is sometimes a challenge for some, before they get their minds into true perspective.  Some may never see the light, even when the truth of brought to light, because there is security in not knowing or admitting to truth.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2008, 07:17:44 AM »
Knowledge of the truth will set you free.............................provided you act on that truth and not ignore it! 

Every Expense incurred on this site is posted and will continue to be posted.  We hope to have some appearance upgrades when my time permits but even that is only $25.00

Murf, you use the word "misled", Frank used "duped", personally, I call it like I see it.  I was "Lied" to.  Thats part of why we insist on publicly disclosing ALL our expenses.  That way we are protected from even the appearance of any inpropriaty. Its called going a step above! 

Thanks for your support as a member here and rest assured, this site will not be a for profit site!
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
  • Topics: 145
  • Referrals: 12
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2008, 08:14:41 AM »
I was thinking of something even stronger that "lied' Kirk, but I am chomping on my tongue to keep from another "term". ;D

No matter the way in which it is "cut"  it all boils down to the same thing.  I sometimes feel sorry for those that cannot see after the hoodwink is removed.  We often accept that which makes us feel worthy or a feeling of value as presented by others.

Take me for example. 

Offline Murf

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 46
  • Topics: 2
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2008, 11:06:28 AM »
Kirk, I could care less if it was a for profit site, more power to you. To say otherwise would be foolish. No different in my eyes than paying a few bucks more for a meal out than I could prepare it for at home, the person doing the work deserves a little something for that work.

The key is, declaring it as such!!

I don't go into a restaurant expecting the owner is running the place out of the goodness of his heart!! Nor would I expect you to be selling your wood for the cost of production.

Likewise I will gladly help out a friend who needs a favour as I'm sure all here would too, but sure wouldn't a second time if I found out the 'hand' I was giving them was putting money in their pocket and not some small jingle in my jeans!!!

I mention this because I had this very thing happen to me!!

I was approached by a 'friend' who wanted to know if I could, on very short notice, do him a 'favour' by flying him quite a few hundred miles north into the bush to pick up his Father-in-law who needed to get back to the city in a rush, his Mother-in-law was not well. I did it gladly. I found out later the FIL was prepared to spend big $$$ on a chartered helicopter to the nearest airport and then hire a plane to get him back to the city.

I found out later the FIL had paid him very handsomely for the ride home, mostly because I was able to get him directly from the mine site he was at to a small airport 15 minutes by taxi from the hospital in record time.

I got barely enough to cover the cost of the fuel I burned and  not a penny more.  >:(

That was the last time I even answered his phone calls.




Don't blame me for Murphy's Law, I'm a victim too!!!

Offline joasis

  • Circle sawyer
  • Administrator
  • Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 748
  • Topics: 97
  • Referrals: 0
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2008, 11:13:27 AM »
Always great to see what the word "friend" means to some.  ::)

For Kirk and I, and Frank as well, the very small operating costs of this forum are completely tax deductible, but since it costs nearly nothing, why bother? Maybe the difference is an occupation....not sitting on a backside wanting charity.
Ladwig Construction
Hennessey, Oklahoma
    405 853 1563

If anyone has any issues, I can be reached at the number above, anytime.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2008, 07:41:55 PM »
Well we got our bill for next years server fees. 

Drum roll please ;D

$4.96 per month for a total of $59.50 for the whole year!
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3169
  • Topics: 262
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2008, 07:43:25 PM »
Oops, forgot to mention:

Its Paid in Full! 
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
  • Topics: 145
  • Referrals: 12
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: What does it really cost to keep a Forestry type Forum up????
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2008, 09:51:15 PM »
What the sawdust, do you mean?  I was having Alice pay the fee for next year.  What do I have to do now, send you some burl?   What  partner you are.  You don't even tell me you are paying the bills.

Am I going to have to get one of my hit men in Ill.,  to get you straightened out? ;D ;D ;D