about band speed

[lauztuvass]

Nice job Wudkutter. there is winter in my country. i dont work with my mill. abouth one months latter will be spring, so i am planning to start work with it. Also i cant share some video about my mill at now..
About my mistakes:
1. My main wheels- vibrations is so big that all my mill is trembling. One main wheel i cat adjust( which is driven by motor). but second is very dificult to adjuct(it wheel is tencioning band).
2. I think that big mistake is that i used this type bearings

They are plased in main wheels. If they are to little tightened, whell have  unconstraint, unrestraint movements. So every day is  necessary to check and adjuct this bearings.
3. My guide rollers is also dificult to adjust. .

So, what i want. I want your apinions that i am right abouth my mistakes or not. also I want some advice how to update(repair) these my mistakes . Thanks for advise 
 

[lauztuvass]

About grinder is with whis type whetstone

All grinder constuction i made myself. But i dont have a good teeth setter. Always i am sharpening at first , and after that i am setting up teeth. In forum i readed that is better to set up teeth and then sharpen. So, how is better to do?

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 Regarding balancing wheels. If you take off the blade, does the driven wheel float freely enough, to allow the heavy part to stop at the bottom of rotation ?? Most of those wheels are drilled at the heavy spot, but not clear through, to remove weight. IF the wheels floats freely, try drilling, a little at a time.

 Same for the drive wheel. Take off the drive belt and see if that floats, the same as the driven wheel. Sometimes, those drilled spots could have dirt buildup, from bugs, that will throw the balance out. Check all that before drilling.

 Tapered bearings are NO problem. maybe you don't pre-tension them correctly???  Loosen up the castellated nut. Turn the nut to loosen it. Then, while turning, tighten the nut, slowly, with pliers, not a wrench. Keep tightening while turning, until the wheels turns fairly stiff, then, back the nut off until you get to the very first open hole to put the cotter pin in. A little looseness is not a bad thing. Stop adjusting every day.

 I posted a photo of how I did the adjustable blade guide. Do a Google search for different brands of band mills. Look at their designs and copy what you can. I used a photo from Woodmizers sales brochure, and measured the actual wheel dia ON THE PHOTO. Then figured what the scale was to make the entire mill larger.  That is EXACTLY how we built the mill, from that sales brochure.

 I didn't see anything bad about your mill. I'm impressed you made it work. Now, go over it 1 item at a time, and see if you would make changes to each item. As I wrote earlier, if anything is shaky, or wobbles, change it so it does not. THEN, adjust the mill and see how it works.

 You can build a blade setter. You need an adjustable push device, a small vise like bracket for the blade to slide through, and a dial indicator. For example, do a Google on Band sawmill blade setter. Then, copy it. Once you have something durable, then, we can help you set it up. ALL this stuff is not difficult, especially when you have the forum to advise you.

 That's how I got things working. Here's a photo of what we can do to a big log. My Son's head is hidden behind the band wheel cover.

[lauztuvass]

I was looking for new gides rollers system. i found one , want to ask apionion about it.


Meaby someone have used this type and can say apinion

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 That's a decent option.  However, you have to physically move to adjust the guide, every time you do anything concerning a knot or other lump on the side of the log. I always kept the roller within an inch of the log-cant, while sawing. Once the log is reduced to a cant, adjustments are not usually necessary.

 The square tube as a bracket for the shaft to slide through, will have tension on it, from the down pressure of the guide. 1/8" inch (approx 3mm) downforce, will help the blade immensely to saw flat lumber.
 You MUST maintain a flat plane of travel of that guide roller, no matter how far out it extends. You MUST maintain the amount of blade deflection, (1/8" ) or whatever works best on your mill, so lumber comes of as close to the same measurements in every direction.

 Tapered, off thickness, or other "defects", means more time for the woodworker to plane the board. Making boards as near perfect as possible, will generate more sales, if that is ever your goal.

 Adding a small wheel of some sort, will help that shaft slide MUCH easier. An automotive windshield wiper, will drive that shaft and make the guide fully adjustable.

 Many is the time I had to move the guide roller in or out, while sawing. Stopping all the time, or, spending much time cutting off most protrusions on the logs, before loading them, will eat into the frustration of little amounts of lumber per hour of sawing.

 Anything beats what you started with. Just trying to automate you a little. Sawing is a pleasant thing, as long as frustration does not set in. Now that you are making mods to the mill, you should keep asking questions. Our help will get you thinking of how to make the mill more efficient. Remember, you are not making money, if the blade is not IN the log. Money aside, I use that line, to get you to realize the better you make the mill work, the EASIER (faster) you make product.

 I was impressed with your first photos, now, impress us some more.  

 Do you ever think of sawing thin boards, like 1/4" (6-7mm) ?? We did quite a bit of that, and, made up a re-saw device to accomplish this. Sometimes, making boards that the public can not buy, can make you some decent side money.

 Sawing ovals is another way to increase sales a little, if you could stand a little extra money from time to time. We always could.  

 I DO get carried away with the words, huh ??      I just like sharing what I have learned. 

[lauztuvass]

  , is very good for me that you share about your experiences
 with band mill. Also it very good that you everything write wide( i can understand almost everything that are you wrote). I also want write more but it is difficult for me, becauce i am not good in english.
About thin boards. When i made my mill, it was cutting better like now. Then i was cutting abuot 5mm thin bords, and this boards was good. In our contry these bords is used on the roof.


About guide rollers. You are rigth about rolers. It is more better then i can the roller to control every time then i want. If adjusting is manual, it is need to stop mill if i want to regulate roller. In your mill control is electrical. I think, that your system is simple to made. so i made one  work drawings .

 I think, that i good understand your system. so, what you can say abouth your system? You are content with it works? it is reliable?


Also i found some info abuot band speed in band mills. There is link http://www.cookssaw.com/increase-portable-sawmill-profits-a-production/how-fast-should-a-bandwheel-turn.html

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 Excellent work with the thin board sawing. 2 thumbs up. (Where is the thumbs up Smiley, Kirk)  

 Have you given thought to use the thin boards INSIDE the houses, like Closet lining ??  In the USA, there is Red Cedar, that is a violet-red color, with whitish streaks, and has a nice aroma, that helps repel bugs and moths. It is used for Closet lining, and chests.

 The movable guide you drew up, is 98% like what we did. Only thing, is, you need to mount the roller below the bar, so you get clearance to mount the roller wheels that guide the bar in and out. Make adjusters, so you can fine tune the bar movement. It needs to travel exactly parallel to the mill bunks, with that 1/8" down pressure. Do the guides you have, have adjustments built in, so you can move the roller up-down-left-right, without moving the mounting bolt ??

 I mounted a skate board wheel on to the motor shaft, and when bolted down, the wheel has sufficient contact to move the roller. IF the roller hits an object, (it will eventually). The drive wheel slips, like a clutch, and keeps the system from being damaged.

 There is a Company, in Russia ?, that makes vacuum kilns. After loading semi-air dried lumber into the kiln, they apply the vacuum. It draws the air-sap out of the log. Then they use a colored liquid, to flood the kiln, and it soaks into the lumber VERY well.

 This is just something for you to investigate.

 I like your work, so, I try hard to make my comments easy as possible for you or anyone, to follow.

 Add a photo from time to time. We all here enjoy photos.

 

[lauztuvass]

I share draws about your post " The movable guide you drew up, is 98% like what we did. Only thing, is, you need to mount the roller below the bar, so you get clearance to mount the roller wheels that guide the bar in and out. Make adjusters, so you can fine tune the bar movement. It needs to travel exactly parallel to the mill bunks, with that 1/8" down pressure. Do the guides you have, have adjustments built in, so you can move the roller up-down-left-right, without moving the mounting bolt ??"
I want to make sure that i good understant you.


      
Ups, one error i did. 1/8 is not 3cm like i wrote in my draws.
 So,  1 inch=2.54 cm ., 2,54x1:8= 0,3175cm=3,175mm   
 

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 Yes, you have that part right.    The drawing is good.  

 Now, go back to page 1 of this thread, reply #5. YOUR post. See the photo of the guide that is mounted BELOW the bar that is adjustable ??  This is how you need to do your new modification. This will allow you to also ount the BRACKET that the tube or solid bar will slide through, so you have room to adjust that roller section, also.

 Also, INSIDE the roller guide tube, IF you purchased one, there is a bolt with the center that is smaller than the rest of the bolt. This is the bolt that the roller is fastened to. There should be 4 screws with locknuts on each side of that tube that houses the roller. That is how you adjust the roller itself.

 You may have this. I have not seen it in your photos.  This makes 2 totally different adjustment parts. One is for PARALLEL up-down. The other is pitching the roller WHEEL at different angles. The rollers should be twisted just a little bit away from the blade travel direction.

 For example, as the blade runs from left to right, for example, the roller on the DRIVE side of the mill, should be twisted slightly TO the left, so the blade only touches the EXIT side of the flange on the roller, BUT, only as the blade is cutting, not running freely.

 On the DRIVEN side, the roller should be twisted TO the left, also, so the blade only touches the EXIT side of the roller flange.

 This is difficult for me to explain. Let me know if you understand. I have NO examples or photos to show what I want you to understand.

This is so the blade can NEVER climb UP_ON the flange, as the blade is running.

OK. I went back to your photos, and, you do NOT have adjustable angle type guides. IF you can get the ones you have to work correctly, try is and see how the blade cuts. You may be able to put small wedges on whatever part you need, to get the rollers to run as I have written.

 Many people say it is nearly impossible to make a home made mill cut good lumber. You, my friend, have done well. I'm just trying to add "fine tuning" to your mill.

 Also, When I was looking at your photos, It seems that the belts are riding nearly even with the outside of the rim of the pulleys. IF that is so, you need to try to find a wider belt, OR, maybe cut a slice of an old innertube, to make a large band, and stretch it over the pulley, working it down into the groove the belt rides in. Then, mash the belt down into that innertube band, so the belt rides just a little above the rim of the pulleys. This MAY be too much, but, you do NOT want the blade to run on the rim of the pulleys.

[lauztuvass]

 
Hi, i came back   . Four days ago broke down my computer- i cant to start windows. trees days i was trying to reinstal windos- my dvd-rom not work. But to day everythink is good   .
So i a little work with my mill. i  dismantle my mill .




In second picture in red 1 i think to fit a motor. Alsow i am waiting a new roler( on this rollers are all head moving).Old system is not good becauce it is inaccurate. The roller have free place to move to rihgt o left. Also is bad that head of the  track have big area- everethink is holding on it :sawdust, rind of the logs. Also i fuonded that my track is not  straight.


So now i think to put 20mm diameter metal stick on old track and to do new rollers like in this draws

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 If that was my mill, first thing I would do is, raise it up off the ground about 6" (150mm) or more, 12 " (300mm) would be better. You need to keep the area around and under the mill, clean. Any bark (rind) of the logs, could make the mill hard to push or cause it to jump over the piece. Last thing you need is a problem, when the blade is way into the log. Once the mill is raised up, you will find it MUCH nicer to use.

 Then, make the track rails as perfect as possible. Make sure it is perfectly flat, especially. That will eliminate any question of the mill head not traveling correctly down the rails.

 Those rollers (wheels) that run on the track, would work for a long time, and, allow you to concentrate on more important things. If you have all those rollers on the mill, adjust them, so that one edge rides close to the outside edge of the track, on all 4 or more rollers. That way, the sideways travel of the head can be avoided. Use the edges of the rollers to guide the mill as it runs back and forth on the track. The rollers in the photo you posted are running in the center on the track. Don't make them rub the sides, just move them closer to the track.

 The round "stick" of metal needs to be very hard, or, it will wear flat spots and cause problems.  That mill is very heavy.

 Good to see you are completely rebuilding the mill. Now that you know you can saw logs, you want to be able to enjoy it. Nice work so far.  

 I have a Peterson Swing Blade mill, here. The engine went bad, so, I have converted the mill to electric. It's only 5 HP, but, it's good enough for me, no more logs than I saw, now.  Always something to fix on sawmills. 

[lauztuvass]

" If that was my mill, first thing I would do is, raise it up off the ground about 6" (150mm) or more, 12 " (300mm) would be better. You need to keep the area around and under the mill, clean. Any bark (rind) of the logs, could make the mill hard to push or cause it to jump over the piece. Last thing you need is a problem, when the blade is way into the log. Once the mill is raised up, you will find it MUCH nicer to use."
 I also was thinking to raise my mill. Now track is on the ground. Is posible to do a legs. but now i am thinking how adjust track (make flat as posible).
also i have some more alternative where to put my track and all mill. In one of my photos you can see a big buiding. In a future i want to put my mill to this building, becauce the weather is very diferent every day in my country. So it is dificult to choise what to do: in summer is good to work in outside but spring, autumn and winter the weather is rainfull.
And now i am almost sure it is better, to put my mill to this garage, becauce  it is needed completely rebuilding my mill.

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 Usually, beams about 300mm x 300mm. Use them like a railroad track. Legs will wobble with that heavy mill.

 If you put the mill in that building, could you make doors to open, so you can put logs on the mill. That will give air in hot weather, also.

 Good thinking to put the mill inside. 

[lauztuvass]

Hi, All
My works is going to forward. I dice to move my mill to inside. So made legs from concrete. those legs are abouth 30cm height and about 80cm udergruond deep.  I put a screw to centre leg. So it will be easy to adjust my tracks . Also i moved my tracks to garage.

 

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 2 thumbs up !!!!!!!!!!  Excellent job. Now you have a way to keep things clean and DRY. Patiently waiting to see how you mod the sawhead. Are you thinking of a power feed for the sawhead ??

 We made ours with an electric DC motor and chain, same as the WoodMizer. Bought a controller for the motor, to work the speed of travel, and, used a drum switch for forward-reverse. Took some figuring out to wire the switch, but, beats pushing and pulling the sawhead all day.

 This way, after making the cut, step up and drag the board-cant off the log, and reverse the head to drop down for the next cut. We also built a drag back for dragging the boards, slabs back to the end for the operator to move, if working alone. Works well, but, we nearly always had 2 people running the mill.

[lauztuvass]

Thans for support Harold 
Yes, i want to build electric head muving up and down and also to forward and back. If i right uderstand you used 12volt motor. So maybe can you tell me how much power those motor have?
To move sawhead up an down, everything i have. Only i dont have a motor.
To move sawhead foward and back i dont have nothing. Chain is not problem. Bigger problem to put right motor. So maybe can you tell some advise? becauce an electrical engineer i am bad. But i think is beter to chose dc 12 volte motor becauce those motor not be afraid to load like 220volt motors. Now i am thinking about power- how much power is need for me?

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 I believe you have plenty of motors. Try starter motors from gas or diesel engines. We used a worm gear drive boat winch on the up-down. We rigged an outboard motor starter motor to it, to save some weight. Sawn over 200,000 bd/ft of lumber, and, changed the brushes 1 time.

 I bought a large sized 3/4HP motor for the forward-reverse. Got a good price, but, it's WAYY over what I should have used.

 I see absolutely no problem with automotive starter motors. They are plentiful and relatively cheap. You just need to work out the gearing, so things can move at workable speed.  On the drive system, go on ebay, just for info, and look for electric scooter BRUSHED motor controller. 12-24Volt. That should be plenty for your forward-reverse.

 You will also need the drum switch for the forward reverse.

 For the up-down, we used a 50Amp on-off-on, self centering toggle switch. Just be sure to allow the motor to COMPLETELY stop turning, before switching in the opposite direction.

 Are you using threaded rod for the up-down device ?? That's why we went with the worm gear drive. self holding when stopped.

 I can post a few photos for you, when you are planning the drive and up-down parts.

EDIT: I forgot about the old tractor you are using parts from. Does that have any hydraulic cylinders, hoses, pump, etc That's how we made the log CLAMPING device, using a cylinder for contacting the log, high and lower, as needed. Also, used hydraulics for the log loader.  I would salvage anything off that tractor (combine), if I could.  Does it have an adjustable travel speed, like an automatic transmission would work ??  I had a John Deere combine, and, as I reached areas in the field that were uneven, I could slow the machine without slowing the engine, then, speed back up, after I left the uneven area.

[lauztuvass]

How the weather in usa?     In lithuania the winter is end. Now is starting the spring. Every day is more and more sun in the sky. 
I am working with my mill. Not very  much, . So my track is in the place, flat. I moved mill head's to the garage. When we put it on the track, i sow that mill head is to hight. It grapple to the  ceiling. But it is not a big problem. Only few ours of works and everything will be good  .

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 As for me, I don't how the weather is in the US. I live in Costa Rica. 

 Sounds like you didn't think too hard about the height of the mill, so it would not hit the rafters. I was going to ask, but, did not want to act like you were not smart enough to think things through. 

 Got a chainsaw    

[lauztuvass]

" Got a chainsaw Huh?  Grin Grin Grin laugh laugh  "..      yesterday i call one men to help for my. when we put the mill head on the tracks, he also said that it is chainsaw need here  .
Everythink is good. heights was only 3cm to much. So, main construction i dont tuch.In the foto (few post over) you can see the small peace of metall on the head. So, i take off it. Thats all. 
 You from costa rica? you are in central america. i never wach your description acount  . Ever was snow in your coutry?

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 chainsaw = hacksaw  

 I grew up with snow, in the North East USA. Now, if I want to see ice and snow, I open the freezer door on my refrigerator. 

[lauztuvass]

Few foto from me


and tension system


Also i made small video. both wheels is in the place. I made adjustmens .
So at now i have question: how much i can to stretch  a blade? I dont have any device to measure.

[lauztuvass]

In previously post is error. I dont post second foto  

this is my tensioner.

and my first smal video

quality is poor..

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

 Like the video. I need to learn how to make videos and post them.

 Tensioner looks good. We use a 3/8" (My MM ruler is missing?) ratchet/socket wrench, to adjust the blade tension. When it gets difficult to turn the wrench, that is tight enough. Under tension, watch carefully, to see if the pulley on the tensioner side tries to twist slightly, as you increase tension. The main thing is, get sufficient clearance under the belt, so the blade never touches the metal pulley.

 What I would suggest, is, find a way to cut down the outer part of the pulleys (wheels). IF the teeth ever get far enough toward those edges of the pulleys, especially inside the building, the noise and sparks will scare you to death.  

 I would try making up a rope that would turn the pulleys, and, use a grinder while the pulleys are turning, to take some material off those pulleys. It might work good as you have it. It's not necessary to remove that, but, I would.

 When you are ready to do electrical, let me know.

 You should be ready for the first log after rebuilding the mill, very soon. Looking MUCH better, so far.  
 

[lauztuvass]

Hi all. its time to rise from the dead this post  .
I have one inportant question for me 
How to do that my mill head run forward and back by electric motor? i want to made a adjust-able speed . for example : to forward slow speed, and back faster speed. Like i said, in my mill everything in electric motor( no gas engine, no gear box, no alternator), everything ir 220v or 380v.