Author Topic: about band speed (Read 98011 times)

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #50 on:** July 04, 2012, 07:00:38 AM »

Chain from one end to the other and a electric motor with a gear that engages the chain like a bycycle sprocket does.

Have the motor conneted to a reistate control that allows you to control the amount of power to the motor to speed it up or slow it down. 1 switch for OFF, Forward, and Reverse. Very simple and works great!

Welcome back!

Have you got your roller guieds figured out? I have the early version Wood Mizer used available if it helps you any. Cost is probably out of this world though but your welcome to it if you want it.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #51 on:** July 04, 2012, 07:54:56 AM »

Good to see you back.

On the head feed, Kirk has the simplest solution. I might have a couple photos of how we did our mill.

On the motor, I'm not exactly sure how to do it with AC voltage, especially that high of voltage you have.

It does not take a large Horse power motor, even on your heavy sawhead. It will require a special inverter that you can adjust the output voltage to the motor.

I would try to find room for a 12V battery, and use DC motor and controller. A brushed motor controller can be purchased from dependable Chinese Companies. Look on Ebay for a seller E-crazyman. He is very dependable and produces good controllers. Many people on a forum I read, have used E-crazyman controllers. Brushed motors are easy to find, at least in the USA and Costa Rica.

Think about small car starter motor or outboard motor starter motor. You will need to modify the GROUND brush leads, so you can reverse the motor direction. That is easy enough to do by running a separate ground wire to the DRUM switch, that is used to make the motor run forward and backward.

Let me see if I can find photos for you. OPrange photo is Wood Mizer feed chain. Green photo is our feed chain. Same design. Can't locare other photos at this time. I will look for more photos.

Have you tried to saw a log since the remodel of your mill ?

Harold

lauztuvass · « **Reply #52 on:** July 04, 2012, 11:05:09 AM »

Thanks for fast replys

. Yes, i try my mill. Now is better like before. If my cain is right ,i can cut more faster. My first try was with thin logs (abouth 18cm diameter). I am hapy how mill cut. Now i am waiting for a some rollers( to make a carriage for logs- move logs inside my garage).
Harold is right about heads moving. In my case is AC power and it is expensive to make this system. So, meaby is a good idea to place converter from 220V AC to 12V or 24V DC? . or batery like Harold said.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #53 on:** July 04, 2012, 01:49:43 PM »

If you know how to do a converter from 220AC down to 12 or 24V DC, then you can use the cheap chinese controller. You will need to gear down the motor so it turns fast at full speed, but, the sawhead moves at walking speed. That is fast enough for ANY sawing, and, it will be too fast for most sawing. Then, the variable speed controller will work well to control the speeds, without a complicated electronics system.

I'm trying to remember the gear ratio we ended up using. The motor and gearing is mounted under the sawhead, along side the supports for the sawhead. The chain goes end of mill to end of mill, and it MUST go around 2 idlers, so the chain stays in full contact with the drive sprocket. We used 3 sprockets, one on the geared down shaft, and 2 as idlers. The chain goes from under 1 idler, up and around the drive sprocket and then, down and under the second idler, and then to the other end of the mill.

I THINK our motor was 1250 RPM, and we geared it to 2" or 2.5" on the motor and 8" or 9" on the geared shaft that drives the sprocket.

Do you know what a "drum Switch" is ?? If not, I will try to find photos of one and draw up some wiring diagrams for you to be confused with, even more.

Also, in the green photo, you can see the motor pulley and the geared shaft drive pulley, and the position it is mounted on our sawmill.

lauztuvass · « **Reply #54 on:** July 04, 2012, 02:45:15 PM »

Abouth converter- converter is not expensive part. Your motor ir powerfull? how much KW? I thing that is not necessary powerfull, about 500W quit enough.
I am waiting for your fotos Harold

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lauztuvass · « **Reply #55 on:** July 04, 2012, 02:59:04 PM »

Abouth sprockets and chain - i think that i right understand you

.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #56 on:** July 04, 2012, 03:08:34 PM »

Yes on all comments. I had no idea what size motor to buy, so, I bought a 3/4 horsepower. That's 560W total.

I'm sure a starter motor, modded, would be fine. There is not that much torque needed to push the saw into the log. In fact, it should almost pull itself along from the teeth on the blade pulling on the wood as it cuts.

I am tied up on the computer, but, I will work on the photo things later and post them this evening.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #57 on:** July 04, 2012, 09:36:05 PM »

The drum switch photos are here.
On the one showing the fingers (contacts) this is where the head scratching comes in.

I have been trying to figure out how to wire this drum switch. I'm just too damn old to figure out these things.

You just need to have the switch, so you can work it one way, then, the other. + and - will be fastened to common contacts. Then, as you work the switch, you will cross the wires to get forward-reverse.

The one we used, had half circle center contacts, that would strike finger contacts, so it's easy to see how to cross wires.

On a brushed motor, + wire is fastened to insulated brush wire. - brush wire is grounded to case. You need to get another set of brushes, so you have another insulated brushwire. Make an insulator from fibre washers or similar, and fasten the 2nd insulated brush wire to the outside of the case. This way, you have 2 insulated brush wires, not touching the motor case, so you hook 1 wire + and the other -.

The wiring from the drum switch is what feeds the crossed + and - for forward/reverse.

Sorry I don't have more photos, but, with the work you have done, I'm certain you can figure this out. If not Kirk will assist you.

lauztuvass · « **Reply #58 on:** July 05, 2012, 11:31:57 AM »

I am not sure but i think one drum swich plased in my mill. mills head up and down is moving by electric motor. I pic 3 phase AC motor 1460rm and about 1kw power. This drum swich have 3 contacts like yuors. Ground i connect without swich. After few days i place here foto and wiring diagram .Maybe it helps you to understand how is working yor swich.
I was long time thinking about starter motor. One men( electric) said that this type motors is not good for long work. Motors too fast heating and they bring a lot of power: then motor is startig it takes about 100A at the start moment; wile is runnig it take abouth 50A power. It is truth or not- i dont now.
In next week i will try to find out more about starter motor modifications, becauce i have two or tree motors.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #59 on:** July 05, 2012, 02:21:20 PM »

Actually, starter motors DO take a lot of amps. However, today, they have permanent magnet motors that are geared. One of those, modded with an end plate and bearing, will do just fine. Gearing a motor will take away all that big amp draw. Do you have car and trucks with electric fan motors that are made to run a long time under extreme conditions.

Plenty of motors. Also, the drive motor doesn't run all the time. If it does get hot, put a fan on it. Even a windshield motor from a BIG truck or bus will work. They are already DC and made to work under extreme conditions.

Look forward to your schematics. My problem is, I don't have one of those switches in my hand, otherwise, I could just figure it out.

Stevem · « **Reply #60 on:** July 06, 2012, 02:31:40 AM »

Convert AC to DC. Get a permanent magnet DC motor that will run either way depending on how you apply the DC. Speed depends on voltage applied.

Example: http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Overview/Catalog/Motors/DC_Motors_-_General_Purpose_IronHorse_%280.33_-_2HP%29

lauztuvass · « **Reply #61 on:** July 08, 2012, 06:33:04 AM »

I have two starters from gas engine. they are not big . both have reductors. One have magnets and 4 brush. another have 2 brush and dont have a magnets. bot dont have a bearings.
Also i found a engine fan from LANCIA TEMA 2.0l gas motor. It have magnets and 4 brush, but no bearings. so ,it is not small, biger like starters. I fink it is very fast.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #62 on:** July 08, 2012, 08:12:58 AM »

That fan motor looks good. I believe it will be fine, if you make all the brush leads insulated from the housing, so you can reverse the +/- wires with the drum switch. It will handle enough amps to do the job. You WILL be gearing the drive system. ACTUALLY it looks to be insulated, already.

Stick it together and try touching the wires to battery +/- and them switch them, to see if it does turn both ways. ALSO. before putting it together, take a straight edge and lay it along one side of a brush holder, so it extends to the opposite brush holder. Looking at the photo, it looks like the holders are not exactly parallel, which means the brushes might be advanced on the commutator. That will increase the motor speed a little, and make it a little less powerful. If all 4 holders are parallel, meaning NOT slightly out of alignment, you are good to go. You may not even NEED to use bearings. IF the bushings are good, just smear a dab of good grease on the shafts and put it to use.

Those mounting screws are not sufficient to handle the torque the motor will create when starting to turn. Make the mount rigid, or make a cradle or something, so you can strap the motor down.

Also, starter motors are CAPABLE of pulling high amps. ANY motor will only pull the amps it needs to get the job done. Starters are made to turn the bendix drive, which is only connected to the shaft when it is activated. Turning in reverse may not turn the gearing, unless you can spot weld them or use a couple set (grub) screws. I never took one of those starters apart. They would certainly last you many years if you could make one turn both ways using the gearbox.

You can also run that motor with 6-8 volts and that will slow it down some.

Not sure about the newer ones, but, the older WoodMizer sawmills have motors for up-down and feed speed that are as small or smaller in size than your fan motor.

For example, look on ebay.com for a 12V brushed motor speed controller. They are small and will connect directly to the drum switch. As you turn the knob the motor starts to turn, and, as you turn it more, the motor turns faster.

Any motor is capable of having bearings installed. You can look for needle bearing sets that might fit the shaft and housing. The motor will not be turning fast, at a steady speed, so, they will be fine. Outboard motors on boats use needle bearings, or did for many years.

We never did discuss if you are going to walk with the sawhead, or, stand at the end of the mill and have the controls in a box on a stand. WE built ours to stay at one end. The controller and drum switch are all in the box and it is weather tight.

Stevem · « **Reply #63 on:** July 10, 2012, 01:02:21 AM »

Just a thought.

wouldn't the motor out of a tread mill work? High torque and already set up to be variable speed.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #64 on:** July 10, 2012, 06:03:52 AM »

That runs off an AC to DC converter to make the motor controllable. Most all treadmill motors are 90V DC.

Does he have an AC outlet in the barn to run it ? Also, he would need to drag the cables along with the mill, like we do with our mill. It's not a problem for us. That's one reason I asked if he was doing a stationary operator control or walking with the mill.

There are several ways to get the head to move. I believe he is strapped for cash, like most of us, and trying to do things as thrifty as possible.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #65 on:** July 28, 2012, 08:04:24 AM »

lauztuvass
How about some photos of stacks of Latvian lumber ??

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #66 on:** July 28, 2012, 11:31:50 AM »

Make that Lithuanian Lumber.

lauztuvass · « **Reply #67 on:** July 29, 2012, 03:19:40 AM »

is not easy for me- about two weeks i made nothing to my mill

But i give a promise-soon i post some foto of stacks of Lithuanian lumber

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #68 on:** July 29, 2012, 08:09:54 AM »

No problem. Just checking to see if you were buried under a mountain of sawdust.

lauztuvass · « **Reply #69 on:** November 06, 2012, 12:58:07 AM »

my first Job

All sumer i was wrking in forest. so did nothing to my mill. Now head up and down is moving by electric motor. To foward and back is moving by my arms efforts

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #70 on:** November 06, 2012, 07:28:13 AM »

Boards are thick and thin. Is that from the list of boards needed, or, from experimenting on how the mill works?

Now, you need some roller tables set up, to run the sawn lumber on down the building out of the way.

Are you happy with how the mill works, now. Looks good from here.

What is the name of the wood ? Hard, semi-hard, soft ?

lauztuvass · « **Reply #71 on:** November 06, 2012, 09:54:31 AM »

Quote from: HaroldCR on November 06, 2012, 07:28:13 AM

Boards are thick and thin. Is that from the list of boards needed, or, from experimenting on how the mill works?

Boards are 25mm thin. In our country this is standar- 1inch thin. Mill works good. While the chain is sharp- everytink is good. Abouth 1mm bord is thicknest at the end of log. But i thint, that is not a problem- it is good precision.

Quote from: HaroldCR on November 06, 2012, 07:28:13 AM

Now, you need some roller tables set up, to run the sawn lumber on down the building out of the way.

You mean- to build a tracks and cart to bring bords to outside of my building? Yes, i agree. It is good option. Also to morrow i put some foto, hove i brings logs to the building.

Quote from: HaroldCR on November 06, 2012, 07:28:13 AM

Are you happy with how the mill works, now. Looks good from here.

I am happy. But i have some points to solve:
My main wheels is too havy- they too much is vibrate.
My mills head is very havy and some times is too hard to push it.
My tracks is flat, so, sawdust are collecting on it, and then is hard to push head to foward.
[/quote]

Quote from: HaroldCR on November 06, 2012, 07:28:13 AM

What is the name of the wood ? Hard, semi-hard, soft ?

Wood is name is spruce. It is semi-hard. More info is here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spruce
In short- Spruce is useful as a building wood, commonly referred to by several different names including North American timber, SPF (spruce, pine, fir) and whitewood. Spruce wood is used for many purposes, ranging from general construction work and crates to highly specialised uses in wooden aircraft, and as a tonewood in many musical instruments, including guitars, mandolins, cellos, violins, and the soundboard at the heart of a piano and the harp. The Wright brothers' first aircraft, the Flyer, was built of spruce.[5]

Because this species has no insect or decay resistance qualities after logging, it is generally recommended for construction purposes as indoor use only (ex. indoor drywall framing). Spruce wood, when left outside can not be expected to last more than 12–18 months depending on the type of climate it is exposed to.
In my country spruce covered about 20 % of all forests.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #72 on:** November 06, 2012, 11:44:58 AM »

No cart for the boards. Build a couple 2-3 table frames, and make some rollers that are about 20" wide. Mount them so they are slightly above the table frames, so, as you remove a board, you give it a push, and it will move along the table on the rollers. Build the second and possible the third, so each table frame is slanted to the end of the building. The board will travel to the end of the tables, and, if you build a deflector, as the board is about to over balance on the last table, it is deflected at a 90° to fall off the tables and stack themselves, sort of.

If you ever get the sawhead to powered, you can have the sawhead slide the board back to you, and onto other roller tables, to go away from the work area.

The heavy wheels, maybe you could replace them with narrow vehicle wheels ?? We used 13" trailer wheels with rubber tires. Easy to balance, just like car tires. Much lighter, also. Rubber tires give a "cushion" so the band will not be over stressed if a piece of bark or other debris gets between the tire and band.

I am about to make a sawhead using motorcycle wheels and tires. We have a lot of smaller logs that will need to be sawn, and, I want to build a multi head machine, so, as the log goes through the machine, it gets sawn 2-3 or more times in 1 pass, sawing from the bottom up, rather than the top down. Boards will always be the same thickness, as long as bands are kept sharp and no metal or rocks to damage teeth.

Build some track scrapers to keep the track AND wheels clean. Simple to build and makes things SO much easier. Power feed is what you need.

Looking forward to photos. Glad you are happy with the work you did on the mill.

Thanks for the info on the Spruce.

lauztuvass · « **Reply #73 on:** April 03, 2013, 01:35:11 PM »

Quote from: HaroldCR on November 06, 2012, 11:44:58 AM

The heavy wheels, maybe you could replace them with narrow vehicle wheels ?? We used 13" trailer wheels with rubber tires. Easy to balance, just like car tires. Much lighter, also. Rubber tires give a "cushion" so the band will not be over stressed if a piece of bark or other debris gets between the tire and band.

Hi, how you are living?

A lot of time run out , like i was here for a last time.
So i have one questions about tires. How much presure ust be in the tire?
One person said me ,that presure must be over 4bar (58psi) . Its real?
Thanks for answers.

HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader · « **Reply #74 on:** April 03, 2013, 03:25:03 PM »

We put 45-50 PSI. (Sorry, don't know bars)

It's amazing all the people that don't have a sawmill, have all the answers.

You are doing a great job. Just keep at it.

Is there any updates ?? have you been sawing ??

Good to see you back here.

News:

Author Topic: about band speed (Read 98011 times)