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Author Topic: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?  (Read 20154 times)

Offline savage

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So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« on: January 29, 2014, 08:41:56 PM »
 ;D I know it's a lot more involved than that. I've been all over the forum looking for a book and or info on the best way to cut up a log so I get the most usable lumber. I will be cutting western red cedar, fir, and pine. Did I miss it? Or am i just blond ?  ::)

Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 08:33:38 AM »
Welcome to the forum.

What will the lumber be used for?  Lots of differant ways to cut up the log depending on what the lumber is going to be used for.

Posts - Keep the heart centered!
Flooring - Quarter sawn.

A lot depends on the log but as long as you keep the rings centered (equal on each side of the board) you should be good to go for just about any lumber you might use for construction or other woodworking projects. 

Most softwoods I cut two boards and flip 180 and cut a couple more.  Depending on log size I can then flip 90 degrees and cut down towards the center, flip 190 and do the same leaving a heart centered post like a 4x4 or larger depending on what I need.

Number of turns of the log depend on the size of the log.  The bigger, the more turning!
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Offline savage

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 04:28:12 PM »
Kirk,

Thank you for the reply. We own an 11+ acre campground near Arnlold, CA. I will mostly use the lumber for construction projects. The first project will be a cover for the mill and drying shed. Then we are going to build about 75 picnic tables. I was thinking about using the cedar for picnic tables. That brings up another question, Does cedar have any structural value? I cant wait to get started.
The boss wants the kitchen remodeled before I even think of setting up the saw and if we finally get some snow I might not start till spring. Any advise for a guy just starting out would be appreciated.

Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 04:36:03 PM »
Cedar would work well for picnic tables.  As far as structural value that will depend on the application.  Being in the heartland where we have little WRC I'm not up on its structural integrity but I suspect most projects like a drying shed, saw shed etc. it would work well with basic constructions principals applied. 

Only advice I have is.................keep the boss happy!  ;D
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Offline Stevem

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 11:30:21 PM »
;D I know it's a lot more involved than that. I've been all over the forum looking for a book and or info on the best way to cut up a log so I get the most usable lumber. I will be cutting western red cedar, fir, and pine. Did I miss it? Or am i just blond ?  ::)
 
But you got to have a personnel relationship with your mill and that takes awhile.   ;) ;)
Calaveras County, huh?  Do you do frogs? ;)

What kind of mill?  I'm a circle sawyer and know very little about band saw sawing so what I say is FWIW.

A lot of your questions are only going to be answered with experience but we'll try.  You might look for somebody else in the area with a sawmill and offer to help them for the experience.  Mostly small mill owners are a subspecies of people and tend to get along.  All that I have found are willing to help.  I'm sure there are a few A-holes out there but they are rare.

What's inside a log varies with species and geographical area and even growing site. Every log is different.  How to cut the log also depends on the type of mill you have and what you're trying to get out of the log.  Lots of "depends".

Western red heart wood has good rot resistance.  Can be used structurally and great for picnic tables, shingles, fence posts and rails and siding/sheeting.  High dollar wood where I live.  You probably also have Incense Cedar.  Big difference.  Incense is also known a pencil cedar because that's a major market for the wood, mostly used in appearance grade applications, picnic tables count.  Either can be used for studs and such but there are better uses.  For structural strength look to your pines, (but not Ponderosa) and D. fir and any of the true firs.  Ponderosa is used mostly as appearance grade like knotty pine.  Any of the woods you have, if massive and/or oversize, work. Check with the local builders.
  
As Kirk said generally keep the heart centered in posts unless you have large tree that can be cut without any heart center.  Boards from the outside posts from the centers.

Keep the grain straight (slope of grain in the grading book). On smaller trees if your saw blade enters the log say 8" from the heart center you want the blade to exit the log the same distance for the strongest boards.  Said another way, a particular grain on a board should stay within the board from one end to the other.  The spec is 1" in 12" or 1' in 12',  but I think that is way too much. Cross grain boards tend to fall apart.
On larger trees cut parallel to the bark to get the best wood and then make a correction toward the center.  What I consider perfect is if I can saw the pith (heart center) out with the saw kerf.  Haven't hit perfect yet but that's the goal.  But I haven't found a perfect tree yet either.   ;D  Any board, beam or post with the pith in it will split or crack.

Wood shrinks as it dries.  If you want a particular finished size you have to cut it larger to allow for that shrinkage. On 2X4's and 2x6's I cut 1/8" over size to allow for shrinkage.  It's not exact but close.  But decide early what size your going to cut and stick with it.  That way wood you cut today will match what you cut next year.  But if you are cutting somebody else's wood it's their call.  Some good calculators here http://www.woodweb.com/Resources/RSCalculators.html and lots of other info on the site.

Do a web search on Nominal verses Actual sizes for dimension lumber.  Hardwood sizes are a whole different book of rules on sizes.

Log diameter is measured on the small end.  Big end don't count for "size" and can cause headaches in sawing.

Try and center knots in the board (conifer) for best strength and better chance to dry straight.  Trees with big knots makes good posts and fire wood.  Knots only have strength in compression not bending or tension.  The larger the knots the lower the grade.

Redwood is special.  It's been used for everything, but in nominal sizes it's not much for strength.  Makes gorgeous tables, mantles and patio furniture. Makes rotten fire wood but don't tell the tourists.  It still burns.

Don't try and get every ounce of lumber out of a tree.  Campgrounds use lots of fire wood and fire wood pays well.

A sharp blade cuts straight, a dull blade doesn't.

And, listen to the boss and have fun.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 11:49:19 PM by Stevem »
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Offline savage

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 02:07:16 PM »
Steve,
Great info and advise. Much thanks. Gonna start the kitchen next week.

Offline Post Oakie

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2014, 04:08:20 PM »
Savage, welcome to the forum.  I think you've found your book-- the condensed version.  All good advice.  It would still help to know what kind of mill you're using, though.  Circle mills, swing blade mills, band mills, and chain saw mills all have their own characteristics that make the cutting patterns different.  Mill shed is a great first project, and picnic tables should be good way to get familiar with the mill, since dimensions won't be super-critical.  For other projects, you may need to air dry the lumber, which will require blocking and stickers.  Don't be afraid to make a few mistakes.  You will probably saw into a clamp, have a log accidentally roll off the mill, and mis-calculate board thickness.  It is all part of the learning curve.  Big thing is to walk away with all body parts intact.  You can fix just about everything else.  WRC should be a dream to cut.  Enjoy!

And yes, after 13 years of running various sawmills, it is still like magic!
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Offline kornmaigg

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2014, 10:54:58 PM »
What will the lumber be used for?  Lots of differant ways to cut up the log depending on what the lumber is going to be used for.

Offline SDB777

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2014, 08:50:24 PM »
Take a look around YouTube...plenty of milling going on there.
No simple book is going to give you the information that experience will teach you....sorry, doesn't work like that.  Each log is it's own piece of timber.....




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Offline 4x4American

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2015, 07:26:36 PM »
SteveM- what mean you by "parallel with the bark?"  I haven't figured it out

Also, the pith, is it just that one little center circle that has no other circles in it, or is the area surrounding it considered pith too?
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2015, 07:29:25 PM »
I pulled my head out of my butt, read further, and understand what you mean about cutting parallel to the bark, then make the correction towards the center.  I will measure to the pith front and back, and level the log so that the pith is within 1/2" end to end.  Then sometimes you get those funky logs where the pith is all over the place.
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Offline Post Oakie

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 11:53:05 AM »
Sometimes, those funky logs produce just what a woodworker wants.  Keeps things interesting, in any case.  Lots of different cutting patterns to get boards out of a log!
Nothin' to it... nothin' to it, at all.  All a feller needs is a little brain and enough muscle to hold it off the ground.
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Offline TnAndy

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 04:15:19 PM »
When I bought my Woodmizer, I went to Indianapolis to pick it up.  They gave us one day of training....1/2 of it was on using the sharpener package, and after lunch, sawing on a mill.  That was it.

What you'll find is it ain't rocket science....throw a log up there and start sawing.  You'll pick up little things along the way, you'll screw up some, you'll hit your dogs a few times, you'll learn the "zing" sound of a nail in the log, and so on.  It just comes with time.  Don't worry about it...just saw.

The part that is magic to me is how much lumber will come out of a crappy looking little log I would have cut into firewood before !

Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2015, 04:23:10 PM »
The wood cutting video series WM sells is a good investment for a new sawyer. 

The other thing I did was spend several days sawing with other WM owners and offering free labor in exchange of education.  After about a week worth of time the knowledge I got from those folks was priceless.  Arkansawyer was one of those.  I dont know if he is still sawing or not but he was a wealth of knowledge. 
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Offline mountainlake

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2015, 05:30:06 AM »

 Don't worry about it...just saw.   

  Good advice, one of the complaints I get about other mills on custom jobs is they waste too much time setting up a log.   Steve

 
 

Offline 4x4American

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2015, 06:26:25 AM »
The wood cutting video series WM sells is a good investment for a new sawyer. 

The other thing I did was spend several days sawing with other WM owners and offering free labor in exchange of education.  After about a week worth of time the knowledge I got from those folks was priceless.  Arkansawyer was one of those.  I dont know if he is still sawing or not but he was a wealth of knowledge. 

Is that different from the seminar series?
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2015, 06:27:30 AM »
OP- yes that's exactly it you just set a log on it and like magic you have lumber!   ;D

As WM put it, sawing is something that takes an hour to learn, and a lifetime to master.
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Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2015, 09:35:33 PM »
Is that different from the seminar series?

"The Edge on Sawing" - 6 DVD series on making money sawing logs
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Offline furu

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2015, 09:41:41 PM »
"The Edge on Sawing" - 6 DVD series on making money sawing logs

Real nice series that WM put out.  Occasionally they have it on a bargain price but not often.
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Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
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Offline 4x4American

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2015, 10:08:53 PM »
Yup I have that one, the wood cutting series part threw me off I thought that it was different from the seminar version.  I watched all of them.  The only seminar I thought could have been reduced from it's own separate dvd to a 1 min video clip was the log size and how it effects your production.
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Offline Stevem

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Re: So you just set a log on it and like magic you have boards?
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2015, 01:16:43 AM »
You might want to become familiar with the differences between quarter sawn and flat sawn.  Most commodity conifer is sawn "flat" to get the most yield out of a log.
But quarter sawn has its special uses like in doors and door and window framing.  Very stable after it's cut.  Also it's the way you cut tone wood for musical instruments and gun stocks.

Have you got western red cedar or incense cedar? 
Stevem
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