Author Topic: Gullet dept (Read 34757 times)

mountainlake · « **on:** October 18, 2014, 04:03:10 PM »

Lately after 10+ years of sawing I've been noticing that blades with a shallower gullet saw straighter, Simonds have a shallow gullet and saw great . I bought some Kasco blades which had a rather deep gullet and sawed terrible but after running them through my sharpener several times which is set for a shallow gullet (same as Simonds ) they saw great. My theory is the higher tooth with a deeper gullet has more twist on the blade. I also bought some WM blades with a deep gullet and they sawed so bad I sent them back. Steve

Stevem · « **Reply #1 on:** October 18, 2014, 09:27:27 PM »

could it be the deeper gullet holds too much sawdust and causes the blade to over heat/wander?

Don't have that problem with a Lucas so this is just a stab in the dark!

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2014, 07:59:00 AM »

Width of cut has a lot to do with it as does species being cut.

I have come to love the 7 degree double hard from woodmizer as they have a deeper gullet than the 9 degree and seem to be working on just about everything I cut.

mountainlake · « **Reply #3 on:** October 20, 2014, 04:19:14 AM »

I cut a lot of big logs and am finding the 3/4 pitch with a shallow gullet cut tough wood like white ash and spruce the best in wide cuts. Steve

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #4 on:** October 20, 2014, 01:00:29 PM »

What hook angle blade are you using?

mountainlake · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2014, 05:15:09 AM »

I buy them at 10 * then sharpen them to 4*, I just use the new 10* blades in easy to cut wood.. Steve

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2014, 09:11:02 AM »

I think WM sells a 4* blade for super hard and frozen wood.

mountainlake · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2014, 05:03:15 AM »

I get my blades from a saw shop 20 miles away so no shipping and they are reasonable at $15 each 150" 1-1/4 blades, even less when they have a sale where you buy 10 and get 2 free. They sell Simonds, WM silvertip, Lennox and now Kasco. I'm not sure if they sell different hook angles but I don't mind buying 10 degree and sharpening them back to 4*. I ran a Kasco again yesterday that wouldn't cut straight at all when new or even sharpened to 4* but now after several sharpening's with the lower gullet it's cutting great, I cut over 2 hours cutting white ash straight as a arrow at a decent feed rate. Also there is another mill near me who says exactly the same thing about Kasco blades. Steve

joasis · « **Reply #8 on:** October 23, 2014, 06:23:10 AM »

We don't have a rule about posting the name and number where you get your blades, I would be interested in the contact information. Thanks

mountainlake · « **Reply #9 on:** October 24, 2014, 05:48:31 AM »

Rice Blacksmith Shop 320-393-2169 It's nice not to have posting rules.. They only run that sale once a year when go to a lumber show up north, I ordered 40 blades that came out to $13.80 each this year, hopefully enough for the whole year. They also hammer circle blades and most anything to do with sawing. The good part for me is I drive right by them quite often. Cooks has a blade sale going on also at about just over $15 for a 150" 1-1/4 blade, just got a sale flyer in the mail yesterday. Steve

joasis · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2014, 07:17:28 AM »

No posting rules as long as it is reasonable. Meaning I won't tolerate porn or stupid stuff. But grown men know what is appropriate and stuff, and along with no pity parties here, this is all about advancing information for what we love.

4x4American · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2015, 07:40:52 PM »

What do you sharpen with? I have a Cook's Cat Claw and I like it, but the lowest it comes from the factory to grind is 8* so maybe I'll have to do some tinkering. I have some Cook's Duratooth SS bands and I really like them so far. WM and Kasco have sent me a sample blade(s) and I look forward to trying them out but am saving them for something harder than the pine I've been sawing. WM sent me their 4* blade and Kasco sent me a 10* and a 4* of their Woodmaxx Blades.

mountainlake · « **Reply #12 on:** February 26, 2015, 08:57:35 AM »

I'm using a Wright sharpener similar to a Cooks, I can sharpen at any angle as it doesn't have positive stops and it does take some tinkering to get it to follow the gullet when going from 10* to 4*. Steve

furu · « **Reply #13 on:** February 26, 2015, 08:15:08 PM »

I am currently running TK Ultras and have not noticed the gullet issue yet but will watch for it.
Thanks

mountainlake · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2015, 09:18:23 AM »

I got mine from TK when I bought the mill, $1600 back then. I've sharpened thousands of blades with it, great machine.. Steve

mountainlake · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2015, 10:38:13 AM »

I don't think TK sells the Wright sharpener anymore but maybe they do. I like the Wright better than the one they make. Steve

furu · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2015, 10:39:17 AM »

Quote from: 4x4American on February 28, 2015, 09:03:55 AM

Furu- I like the TK Ultra blades. You?

Can't really complain yet as they are the only blades that I have used. I got a bunch of them (26) with the mill and have not run out of them/resharpening them yet. I plan on trying the Cooks in the future however as I suspect from my research they are better but do not really know for certain.
You have used both which is better in your opinion?

To diverge little bit off topic.

Saw your other post elsewhere.
If you are going to switch I would go LT50. Don't know how much you will take a bath on the sale of your current mill however. When I was originally looking I cut the 40 out of consideration quite early. (Never really looked at the 40 only the super 40) I know you are frustrated with your current one but the electrical issues that people have scared me away, especially the number of "H" bridge problems that crop up in what seem like batches. You hear of none, then someone will post about one and then there is this cascade of "me too"" that come out. I think they are about $900 a pop. Then there are the solenoids and the switches and everything that they say have to be kept clean. Lets not mention the "grounds" that I keep reading about that cause problems. When they get a bad ground it invariably burns up some other circuit or so it seems. (from reading the posts) I have no first hand knowledge of this however.
Sawdust and water (read as rain) is impossible to keep clean. I worry about my TK in the environment I am in.
If I was under cover and never came out I might look at it differently. In my environment I was scared of the electrical issues. Even on my "hydraulic only" (not;

right

) TK the solenoid on the debarker gave up the ghost and TK had to send me a new one. Wet is just the way it is in my area, like cold is the way it is in yours.

mountainlake · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2015, 11:02:18 AM »

If I was to buy a WM it would be a 50 also (chain turner, vertical log stops are both a big plus) but same as above I won't due to all the electric that will cause trouble as long as you own it. Seems like WM owners have been rather quiet about their problems lately as to compared to a year ago but you can bet they are still there. On my Email from the FF one guy posted new topic, ('I hate my Wood-Mizer LT28D17: am I the only one?'), has been made on a board you are watching. That never even made it up on the Forum, talk about censorship. You've had more problems with your TK than most but I think your close to getting it up and running good. The only 2 things that everyone had to fix is the movable guide arm slop and those plastic blocks on the post which I would hope TK addresses soon but neither one take long to fix. Steve

furu · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2015, 12:20:56 PM »

Quote from: 4x4American on February 28, 2015, 11:40:32 AM

snip...........
I also can't justify the 5% FF charges for you to advertise something there. If you're selling a $35k mill, that's $1750!!! Does it really cost much to have an internet forum??

I hope that this forum takes off. The more I think about it the more the dark side seems like a communistic place! What happened to freedom of speech? If you can't talk about your problems with products because they have paid the forum off, than what the heck good is a forum??? The reason most people join forums is to solve problems and if you can't freely talk about them well there's no sense in logging in...

It is easy to justify if that is how you are making your monthly paycheck. (not that I am saying that I think it is appropriate or right) From what I have found the owner makes his living off the forum, (that and gov't DA) so he needs to make coin off everything that happens, and he defends his advertisers to protect them and their payments to him for advertising. Somewhere here there is a post in the archives about what this forum actually cost to run. It puts the other in perspective and is a good reason to support and build viewership and postings here in the light.

mountainlake · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2015, 02:10:45 PM »

The trouble with the other forum is you really get blasted if you say one bad thing about WM yet WM owners (only a few ) can bash and put down other mills all they want too. If I was TK I might pull my sponsorship after some of the post. I see nothing wrong with posting problems about any mill on any forum, some problems are specific to a mill where as other trouble all mills will have the same such as adjustment etc. TK does have a couple of issues that should be fixed and they have already fixed a couple issues in the past thanks to posting problems. When I first got my B20 I had a couple of things that needed fixing, I fixed them it's been a real trouble free mill since then. Steve

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2015, 03:15:46 PM »

The annual cost of operating this forum is approximately $65 dollars. It is self funded and we NEVER ask for contributions, NEVER will. We are approaching a point we will have to upgrade to a larger server size but the cost will still be less than $120 a year.

If you have a problem with a mill, share it! I dont care what brand. If we dont expose problems and find solutions then what good is the site.

I am not here to make a living off of this site. In fact, what comes in from adds is what pays for it and at best we put $20-30 bucks in our pocket.

It is a private forum so "some" speech may be limited if it turns into a foul misguided attack but as most know, we have rarely censored people.

Most of us here are here because of the same reason! Personally, I was lied to and after the owner of the dark side placed his logo on my other company web site that I had him manage, that was the final straw. If anyone clicked on it, it took them away from my site and directly to his. I NEVER gave permission for that type of link on my site.

I know one of our members provided some beautiful spalted maple as an auction item to raise money for them and they owner kept it for himself instead of selling it. Hardly representative of the type of person I care to associate with.

We find a bump in new members anytime they start crying about funding. Blah, blah, blah. They have been crying the same tune for years.

Let the saw dust fly! Share your experience, Good or Bad, and never worry that we are going to question you because of any sponsor, which by the way, WE DON'T HAVE ANY! The banner adds at the top are provided FREE OF CHARGE and have been since day one!

mountainlake · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2015, 03:19:29 PM »

Kirk I'm liking this this site better and better, good to see some integrity left in this country!!!! Steve

4x4American · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2015, 05:06:58 PM »

Kirk- you're the man with the plan, I'm on your side. Let's try and get more people over here!

xlogger · « **Reply #23 on:** March 01, 2015, 05:04:45 AM »

wow! looks like I found a forum that will work for me also. Glad Steve directed me here. Ricky

joasis · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2015, 06:35:50 AM »

Welcome to the club!

4x4American · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2015, 07:14:47 AM »

Hey Ricky!

Staying warm down there are ya?

-Doug

xlogger · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2015, 07:22:41 AM »

snowed in, melting very slow. Not saw any wood in over a week. Not use to this weather. 4x4, you better think real hard about changing machines! I'd like to have yours with the diesel. I went the other way with trading, started with an orange machine and very happy with the 2000.

furu · « **Reply #27 on:** March 01, 2015, 10:59:38 AM »

Doug
I just read your response about you and electrical issues over on the dark side. Think real hard about jumping ship on that mill of yours for a WM.
The old saying
"out of the frying pan into the fire comes to mind."

I got a PM yesterday that I am going to check to see if it was sent to you as well.
Interesting reading.

As an aside
Remember Pravda means "the truth" The old USSR controlled the truth that was disseminated to the proletariat through the newspaper Pravda. You control folks thinking and actions by the information that is allowed to be available to them. Now I know that the comparison is a bit of a stretch but if you never read of problems/issues it does not mean they do not exist.
Steve

furu · « **Reply #28 on:** March 01, 2015, 12:06:26 PM »

Quote from: xlogger on March 01, 2015, 05:04:45 AM

wow! looks like I found a forum that will work for me also. Glad Steve directed me here. Ricky

Ricky
Welcome aboard. Glad you made it over to the light side.
Steve

backwoods sawyer · « **Reply #29 on:** March 01, 2015, 09:40:15 PM »

After half a dozen years as a ff member and to get booted without an admin discussion left me feeling the french have a much better understanding of freedom of speech.

I hated to see Sawbucks loose the platform that it was on.

I upgraded computers and look forward to talking sawmills and all that goes with it with the folks here.

jake · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2016, 08:10:45 PM »

Quote from: mountainlake on October 24, 2014, 05:48:31 AM

Rice Blacksmith Shop 320-393-2169 It's nice not to have posting rules.. They only run that sale once a year when go to a lumber show up north, I ordered 40 blades that came out to $13.80 each this year, hopefully enough for the whole year. They also hammer circle blades and most anything to do with sawing. The good part for me is I drive right by them quite often. Cooks has a blade sale going on also at about just over $15 for a 150" 1-1/4 blade, just got a sale flyer in the mail yesterday. Steve

Sorry if this is off topic from OP, but does relate to comments made about simonds blades. I ordered 10 simonds blades from this shop. I'm not trying to bash them, just looking for info to clarify correct specs on simonds blades. I ordered 3/4 TS and 7/8 TS (pitch). Problem is the 7/8 blades have different tooth height and was wondering why? What do others have?

Some of the 7/8 blades have a tall tooth that looks like this:

And some of the 7/8 blades have a short tooth that looks like this:

Any guess on why these would be so different? Seems like the taller tooth blades have less hook, maybe they just sent me the wrong blades. Does anyone have a simonds they can check to let me know which is correct so I know what to expect on future orders?

And here is a picture of the 3/4 TS blades:

As you can see the 3/4 pitch blades have tooth height similar to shorter 7/8 blades. thanks, jake.

mountainlake · « **Reply #31 on:** January 17, 2016, 04:20:01 AM »

The top blade looks more like a Lennox blade which are wider than a Simonds blade, if it says Simonds on it maybe Simonds is switching to a little wider blade. Also Rice has only been selling Simonds with a 10* hook, they could have changed as I haven't been there for a while. Steve

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #32 on:** January 17, 2016, 07:59:43 AM »

My speculation:
Is the first pic showing a single taller tooth a tooth with no set and every third one is like that?

The other pics, are the measurement your showing consistent for each blade on all the teeth? A .010 difference in tooth height between two different blades can be explained by the sharpening process.

Grinding stones can cause this kind of differance as they were down as being used, thus differences in tooth heights.

I use the CBN wheel and avoid that problem.

jake · « **Reply #33 on:** January 17, 2016, 02:49:35 PM »

Kirk, these bands have one use, not yet sharpened. Teeth are fairly consistent measure. First pic to second pic are the two 7/8 pitch bands, and they have noticeable by eye difference in profile (at least when you can compare next to each other as I'm doing here in person). And you can see a considerable difference in width (or distance from back of band to tip of tooth). Band in second pic (simonds?) Has smaller gullet too. I wish I could justify buying a cbn, but I don't saw enough, so I use what came with my mill, which is an old WM drag sharpener. Thanks, jake.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #34 on:** January 18, 2016, 09:25:19 AM »

I would bet the tolerances for even new blades is .010 thousands, thus the first two would be within their tolerance and you would never notice that when cutting.

However the profile between the first two pics does look different? When you lay one blade over the other is there a difference? It looks like there is but I would lay one on top of the other and snap a picture of that with the back of the blade flush with a strait line hard surface.

I purchased the conversion kit from the old drag wheel design to the CBN. A LOT cheaper than buying the CBN set up.

jake · « **Reply #35 on:** January 18, 2016, 12:49:25 PM »

The first two have a difference of 77 thou, and yes if you overlay them they are significantly different. I know the pics don't show it well. I will try to get you a better picture tonight. I would be interested in a conversion kit, does WM still sell them? I will have to give them a call. Thanks for the info, jake.

bandmiller2 · « **Reply #36 on:** February 05, 2016, 06:43:01 AM »

Mountainlake, your theory about gullet depth has merit, but like so many other thing in our obsession there are so many other variables its hard to pin down. Myself I prefer a deeper gullet but I've had no problems with the shallow ones ether. Every brand of band, I've tried, has given me good service most fond of Timberwolf. Call it loyalty but when I was building my band mill the owner Art spent time on the phone and gave me help and his time freely. Frank C.

News:

Author Topic: Gullet dept (Read 34757 times)