alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description

Author Topic: Kiln Build  (Read 16133 times)

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Kiln Build
« on: November 27, 2014, 07:56:09 PM »
As another poster commented recently we need to get more participation so as to provide an alternative.

Well I am finally getting ready to start my kiln build.  It has been in the planning stages for quite some time but other things have been taking priority and I have just not gotten started.
It will not be something that I get done in a week or even a month or so, as I have a full time job, and then as my wife says I have another full time job and then two part time ones as well.  Hoping to fit it in before planting season starts in mid-January.  At least most but not all of my forestry site prep is done which is a change for me this early.
Never enough time in the day/week/year.

I will slowly post photos as I progress.  The design is based on the Nyle plan.  I have had to come up with a way to make it modular however, as we will be moving in the next year or so to a house we are building in the forests that we own.  As a result I have to be able to disassemble it and move and put it back together when that time comes.  Thought about the container idea but abandoned that as not acceptable and we cannot build it in its permanent location as no power there yet and it could not be monitored adequately as it was drying.

Well hopefully I will start posting photos soon. (maybe tomorrow if the rain allows me to get some work done)  Design will allow me to dry about 3000 bf at a time.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2014, 01:53:16 AM »
Well the rain finally stopped then it snowed but I did get started on the Kiln. 
I have included a couple of pictures to show where I am going.  This is the flooring for the first half.  The opposite half will be a near mirror image and the build will be started after I make more progress on the first half.

I am planning on a significant amount of insulation (hard to have too much they say)  In two of the pictures the foam R-10 and R-12.9 boards are being placed.




Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2014, 08:02:13 PM »
Got most of the upper layer of closed cell foam insulation (foil faced closed cell; R-12.9) on in this picture.  I not only got the last of it on  today but got the edges and voids filled with spray foam to prevent air infiltration.  I did cut the 6 mil plastic moisture barrier that will go on but did not get it fastened down before it got too dark. 
The one picture is all I got before I realized it was too dark to get any others.  I tried to seal it to try to prevent the rain from getting in as our freezing weather is being exchanged for rain for the next couple of days.  Trying to do this with the rain is a challenge.  Should have started in dry weather.  Oh what is that? Oh well!
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1016
  • Topics: 77
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2014, 11:54:21 AM »

 Looking good. Down here, best I could find was ---- sawdust.  ::) Built the base same as you, then, lined the pockets with double 4mil plastic sheet, and spread dry sawdust in each pocket. Then, placed the floor (all board construction, no plywood here)  and covered THAT with 2 layers of 4mil plastic sheet.

 Then, built the walls on top of that plastic. After 5+ years, the plastic roofing is brittle and cracking, letting rain in. Soon, I need to tear it all apart and burn the wood. Termites and BIG ants are now making their homes in the wet sawdust through holes in that plastic sheeting.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Topics: 259
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2014, 05:21:15 PM »
Looks like it's coming along nicely! 
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Tom the Sawyer

  • Tom the Sawyer
  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
  • Topics: 3
  • Country: us
  • Converting logs to lumber at your home or mine.
  • Referrals: 0
    • Tom the Sawyer Portable Sawmill Service
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2014, 07:49:38 AM »
furu,

Interesting to see your topic.  I too bought a Nyle kiln kit (L200M, last year) and have been delayed in building my chamber.  I am also doing a somewhat modular plan.  In my case, I'm 63 and it is likely that the kiln will outlast my ability to use it so it could be sold and moved in 9 panels and fit on a standard flatbed trailer.  Mine will be built inside my barn and hold 2000 board feet.  The barn is a metal pole barn with a concrete floor (uninsulated) so I'll be adding a raised floor in order to put in insulation.  The walls will be spray polyurethane insulation and the ceiling will be spray polyurethane over 2" of polyiso rigid foam.   

You're slightly ahead of me, right now I have two big piles - one of framing materials and the other, sheet goods.  It's been cold here (you must be south of here if you are able to plant in mid-January) but I'm still milling a couple of times per week.  January and February aren't too conducive to working outside around here.

Good luck with your construction, I'll be following to see what I can learn.
Timberking B-20, log arch, F350 flatbed dump,
20' Trailer w/ log loading arch, Princeton forklift, Bobcat S250 w/ Frostbite grapple.  Nyle L200M kiln.

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 02:19:43 PM »
Tom
I consider that the more years we have behind us the more advanced the point that we consider someone old. 
For example I now consider 80 the point that someone is old.  I suspect in another 10 years my reference will be more like 90 as I refuse to be old.  Thus I never plan to stop. 

As to planting, I am a good bit north of you but have a bit of a maritime influence (pacific ocean) here in the PNW. However I am over a 100 miles from the ocean.   Planting of seedlings start as early as mid January if they are straight bare root stock.  I have actually planted straight plug seedlings in late October/early November; however the concern there is that the roots need a least a month to get started before the ground freezes solid so that freeze heaving does not pop the plug out of the ground.  Roots actually grow even in the winter albeit slowly.  After mid January bare root planting of seedlings starts in earnest.  I have had to scrape snow out of the way to get to the ground for the planting dibble to work.  The USDA programs in this area require planting to be complete by the end of March but start no earlier than 15 January.  Of course at higher elevations where the snow is really deep that can be extended.  Most of the seedling nurseries start their bare root pulls in mid December then store in coolers at 32-33 degree until delivery in 200 - 500 stem bags.  The shelf life in a climate controlled cooler can be a couple of months but the quicker they get in the ground the better.

What have you priced the spray poly at?  Are you buying the spray kits that are available ( I have seen them at $300-$350 for 200 sq ft at 1 inch thickness) or are you planning on hiring someone.  I looked at the spray kits but came away with calculations that I could do closed cell foam board cheaper (by a lot) and get more bang for the buck.  Always interested in another view point on that subject.  My research came up with the largest size kits available  were 2.5 times as expensive as the foil faced iso boards and the standard size kits were nearly 4.5 times as expensive as the foil iso boards.
Since you are planning on one foam board (either R12.9 or R-10 I presume) then the spray, how many inches/R value of spray are you looking at going to?

I am shooting for about R-40 plus.  One iso foil board at R12.9 then an R-10 board then R-21 normal insulation.  I am hoping that with the 6 mil barrier, foil taped seams on the foil foam boards and all, that I will be able to control the moisture such that the R-21 insulation will never see moisture to ruin it.  The Nyle plans imply that it can.  The real problem is finding the R-21 unfaced so that there are not 2 vapor barriers (a bad thing).  I may have to use the faced insulation and put cuts in the facing to allow any moisture to escape.  I read that is a solution but am not pleased with the idea.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 02:45:44 PM »
Looking good. Down here, best I could find was ---- sawdust.  ::) Built the base same as you, then, lined the pockets with double 4mil plastic sheet, and spread dry sawdust in each pocket. Then, placed the floor (all board construction, no plywood here)  and covered THAT with 2 layers of 4mil plastic sheet.

Now that is what I call inventive and using the materials that you have available.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline Tom the Sawyer

  • Tom the Sawyer
  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
  • Topics: 3
  • Country: us
  • Converting logs to lumber at your home or mine.
  • Referrals: 0
    • Tom the Sawyer Portable Sawmill Service
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 04:41:53 PM »
furu, 

I will have 2x4 walls, 16" on center, 2x6 rafters.  The price I got for having it done was $3 per square foot for 2" thickness plus .80 per square foot for each additional inch.
Timberking B-20, log arch, F350 flatbed dump,
20' Trailer w/ log loading arch, Princeton forklift, Bobcat S250 w/ Frostbite grapple.  Nyle L200M kiln.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3143
  • Topics: 259
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 05:34:03 PM »
Someday!!!!!!!!!! ???

I think my Kiln is well established as a pipe dream  :-[
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Stevem

  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1106
  • Topics: 100
  • Referrals: 1
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2014, 02:12:48 AM »
4' X 8' kiln on the cheap:

basic materials:
I  stack of lumber not greater than 8' long nor wider than 4' (2-3 ft would be better)

1  4' x 8' x 2" poly foam insulation board.

1  Walmart 25-35 qt dehumidifier.

3  4" x 4" x 5-6' long (bunks)

3-4   2" x something 5-6' long

4 smallish ratcheting tie down straps

4 heavy springs

1 large blue tarp big enough to cover stack and drape over the side and reach the floor.

1 auxiliary box fan

what to do with what you got:

place bunks on floor (garage/barn/shed/etc), leveled and squared.

sticker bunks

Place stack of lumber even with one edge on supporting bunks, stickered.

Ratchet strap the stack together.  If you can get 4 heavy spring us those as part of the strap.

Place 2" somethings on top of stack even with the bunks.

Place the dehumidifier on floor toward one end with fan blowing through the stack.

Place aux fan on other end set to low speed.

Set the DH on max.  Some of these unit you can specify a humidity level if you want.

Put insulation board on top with maybe 2-3" overhang on the edge that's even with the bunks. (plywood would work but just not as good or as handy)

cover the stack with the blue tarp and hold the edges down with some kind of weight.

Plug in the fan and the dehumidifier.

What to watch:

Don't allow the blue tarp to get sucked up against the DH unit or the fan.

Once a day something has to be done with the water extracted.  Some DH units have provisions for a drain hose, use it if you can. other wise you have to remove the catch basin and dump it.

Temperature can be monitored with a thermometer that just pokes through the blue tarp at an appropriate place but probably won't be a problem.  The DH unit does produce some heat but with no real insulation, heat shouldn't be a problem.  No heat means this won't work in a cold place.

Periodically tighten the straps as needed.  Springs allow longer interval between tightenings.


I've used the blue tarp method to heat treat individual pieces of wood for bugs. Used a 110 volt baseboard heater and fan under a tarp with the wood on low saw horses.





Stevem
Because you can doesn't mean you should!

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2014, 12:25:59 AM »
Have not gotten a lot done due to torrential downpours and winds but finished the floor of the one side and started to frame the wall to lift up in position.  Used 6 mil sheeting under the plywood.

Thought I would show my wannabe helper who really wants to come out but since he tries to steal my stuff to get me to play and not work he is banned.

Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 621
  • Topics: 21
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2014, 12:06:50 PM »
The rains have been trying to keep me from working on this kiln build. ;D  
Keeping the water out of the flooring has been my challenge as I try to get the sides and top on.  
Not making the progress that I would like to me making.  I need more time in the week and less other stuff needing to be done.

As I previously posted I have a 6 mil sheet down on top of the foam insulation, then the plywood flooring but water from rain likes to pool and my concern is that I will get infiltration.  Thus I have another layer of 6 mil on top of the plywood and then a poly tarp on top of that.  

Here I have at least gotten two of the phase 1 sides up but need to get the third up and get rafters and roofing on to stop the rain issue.

Not real happy with how far it is up in the air, but will have to live with it until I get it moved when we get the new place built and moved to.

Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline xlogger

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 88
  • Topics: 10
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Kiln Build
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2015, 04:11:05 AM »
If you insulate under the slab would you still need a wood box frame on top of the slab also? I have not got started on my kiln yet, still trying to figure out how to control the moisture. My plan was just to put in a DH but after learning more I'm finding out it could be done too quickly. Do you think I need something to open and shut vents also?  I still plan on using my OWB to supply heat and I can control that with a thermostat.  Trying not to buy a Nyle or other unit if I can.