Me too, now!

[Stevem]

Well this morning I pulled the trigger on buying a band mill.  So now I can be a member of the elite biggest group of you guys and have the same problems.  No plans on parting with my Lucas, just have more options in sawing now

Put money down on a new Timberking 1600 this AM.  Build order submitted and estimate delivery in 6 weeks.

Hey Mountainlake, last year you talked about 2 things that "all" TK owners had to fix,
 

The only 2 things that everyone had to fix is the movable guide arm slop and those plastic blocks on the post which I would hope TK addresses soon but neither one take long to fix.

I mentioned this to TK today and they wanted to know what models and I didn't have a clue.  Said he was unaware of any problems that needed parts.  Any more details I can pass on?

[mountainlake]

  Congratulation on your new mill, you picked a good one. 
 I think the 1600
 is the same design as the 2000 which came with a couple of small problems.

  The movable guide arm is not strong enough when fully extended and wont provide proper down pressure, the easy fix is to put a white plastic block between the support on top and the frame so it cant go up any higher when sawing.
 If you have computer set works  the white plastic blocks  the head ride on up and down are too tight and can make the set works erratic if they bind a little too much on the way down as the set works has a built in coast time and if those blocks bind a little it wont coast as far.  I just shaved a little off those blocks. If you don't have set works on your 1600 no problem.   Also TK only recommends 1/8" down pressure on the roller guides, you will saw straighter with 1/4" down pressure which both WM and Cooks recommends.  I also run the back flange of the roller guide 3/16 to 1/4" behind the blade which Cooks recommends,  every time mine get out of adjustment and get too close blades start breaking fast.  .  .   Steve

[xlogger]

congrats on the new mill, TK is great to work with if you need them. Steve gave you some great suggestions.

[backwoods sawyer]

Congratulations

So how much tension was on that trigger?

[furu]

I have to agree that TK should be a great mill.  
The design of it, in general, is top notch (unfortunately not all parts meet that description).  
I have had a horrible experience with my TK and just recently after over 2 years with it do I think I might finally have the bugs out of it. (Not really but I think I am close) I know of one guy that got his mill at the same time as me that got rid of it and switched to WM and another guy that TK had to take his back and replace it with another.   I wish I had followed that path.

Since you are a long distance from KC I hope that you are going to get it yourself and not rely on their drivers to deliver it to you. ( I can go into more detail if you need on that subject.)

Jason at TK is great to work with but their service manager Mike is not a credit to the company.  Even Will Johnson admitted to me that Mike has a communication issue that creates problems with customers.  In that job, as service manager, he is not a positive force for the company.

[Tom the Sawyer]

Stevem,

Congratulations on ordering your new mill.  I'm sure you will enjoy it.  I've had mine for more than 6 years and, like any piece of equipment in use, I've had maintenance and repairs to make.  TK's support has always been great.  I really appreciate Mike and Jason because they were there when my model (B-20) was the flagship of the fleet.  Although my model has been superseded by newer versions, they still offer excellent support. 

I had a example, just this week.  I had a freak component failure. I was working for a client and we were turning a massive bur oak log when the turner chain quit.  A quick check showed that the set screw hole for gear on the hydraulic motor had blown out.  I called Matt at TK, part was in stock.  Clients went to unload and get lunch while I headed down to TK.  The part was waiting for me when I got there.  Wil made sure I had what I needed and $7 later I was headed back home.  Back in business.

I am quite fortunate that I happen to live within driving distance (35 miles) of the headquarters for my brand of mill.  If I call I can usually get someone right away who can answer my questions but I have learned a lot about my mill, and others, by going in and asking questions.  I have also been able to overhear conversations with customers, both in person and their side of the phone.  I have been ready to purchase parts, based on my diagnosis of the problem, and had one of them suggest an alternative cause for the symptoms - they are usually right on.  I have seen the patience they have when walking someone through mechanical or procedural processes that they don't understand.  Once or twice, it has been me.

Timberking, and WM for that matter, continuously improve their products, without changing model numbers.  That is why it is important for them to identify your mill when you need assistance.  Over the years my model has had several different engines, along with changes to clamps, loading arms, etc.  You may hear people discuss an issue with a 1600 that your model doesn't have.  In some cases the improvements are available for older versions.  They even came out with new style guide rollers for my mill which hasn't been made for 5+ years.

You've invested with a top notch mill manufacturer, avail yourself of the training and support they provide.  On the other hand, I don't envy you, or whoever, is going to haul that new mill 1800 miles.          

[mountainlake]

I have to agree that TK should be a great mill.  
The design of it, in general, is top notch (unfortunately not all parts meet that description).  
I have had a horrible experience with my TK and just recently after over 2 years with it do I think I might finally have the bugs out of it. (Not really but I think I am close) I know of one guy that got his mill at the same time as me that got rid of it and switched to WM and another guy that TK had to take his back and replace it with another.   I wish I had followed that path.

Since you are a long distance from KC I hope that you are going to get it yourself and not rely on their drivers to deliver it to you. ( I can go into more detail if you need on that subject.)

Jason at TK is great to work with but their service manager Mike is not a credit to the company.  Even Will Johnson admitted to me that Mike has a communication issue that creates problems with customers.  In that job, as service manager, he is not a positive force for the company.

  Fill us in on what problems you've been having and the fix, getting older but sometimes I remember these problems and it might help in the future.  Or maybe some one else has a fix for your problems.  On my B20 I've had maybe 3 thing I redesigned that weren't the best but every one has been working good now for thousands of hours..   Far as Mike goes he can be a little short but he knows the B20 inside out and gives me nothing but good advice.  Steve

[mountainlake]

Stevem,

Congratulations on ordering your new mill.  I'm sure you will enjoy it.  I've had mine for more than 6 years and, like any piece of equipment in use, I've had maintenance and repairs to make.  TK's support has always been great.  I really appreciate Mike and Jason because they were there when my model (B-20) was the flagship of the fleet.  Although my model has been superseded by newer versions, they still offer excellent support. 

I had a example, just this week.  I had a freak component failure. I was working for a client and we were turning a massive bur oak log when the turner chain quit.  A quick check showed that the set screw hole for gear on the hydraulic motor had blown out.  I called Matt at TK, part was in stock.  Clients went to unload and get lunch while I headed down to TK.  The part was waiting for me when I got there.  Wil made sure I had what I needed and $7 later I was headed back home.  Back in business.

I am quite fortunate that I happen to live within driving distance (35 miles) of the headquarters for my brand of mill.  If I call I can usually get someone right away who can answer my questions but I have learned a lot about my mill, and others, by going in and asking questions.  I have also been able to overhear conversations with customers, both in person and their side of the phone.  I have been ready to purchase parts, based on my diagnosis of the problem, and had one of them suggest an alternative cause for the symptoms - they are usually right on.  I have seen the patience they have when walking someone through mechanical or procedural processes that they don't understand.  Once or twice, it has been me.

Timberking, and WM for that matter, continuously improve their products, without changing model numbers.  That is why it is important for them to identify your mill when you need assistance.  Over the years my model has had several different engines, along with changes to clamps, loading arms, etc.  You may hear people discuss an issue with a 1600 that your model doesn't have.  In some cases the improvements are available for older versions.  They even came out with new style guide rollers for my mill which hasn't been made for 5+ years.

You've invested with a top notch mill manufacturer, avail yourself of the training and support they provide.  On the other hand, I don't envy you, or whoever, is going to haul that new mill 1800 miles.          

  Tom
  Your lucky to live so close, over here I keep spare parts like a roller guide, a solenoid, a new computer , new bronze nuts for the lift rods, a spare chain for the turner and lots of different toggle switches, B56 belts.  The longest I've been down on a sawing job is 2 1/2 hours and I've never missed a day due to repairs but have spent a whole day doing maintenance and I'm due for another day soon as it gets warm.. It's really good to see some action on this forum, on the other one someone was putting down TK for no good reason again which is really sick.  Steve

[Tom the Sawyer]

Steve,

Your B-20 is an inspiration, both to its longevity (11,000 hours) and adaptability.  I normally keep commonly used parts on-hand, and a few others like hydraulic couplings, several feet of 40 and 50 chain along with repair links, drip nozzles, a solenoid, guide roller, toggle switch, even a spare trailer jack.  Had the chain broke (I've done that one before), I was ready.  This was probably my fault, apparently the set screw was loose and allowed the gear to slide out to where the torque on that big log broke it out at the key hole.  I now use LockTite on all set screws.  

[Stevem]

Thanks for the congrats and info guys. 6 weeks out for delivery.

I had several reasons for buying the mill and picking TK
1. hydraulics to help this old man not have another hernia.
2. I have a grandson that needs some direction in life and this might help
3. Local mill lost their sawyer and I contract saw for him on small orders and now he wants 12" x 12" and a Lucas is a hassle to cut that size.
4. 32" throat.  Cutting more and more slabs which works well with the Lucas but why lose the kerf on the narrower slabs?  At $6 to $8 per bdf on some woods band saws make a lot of sense.  Same story for instrument wood.

mountainlake:
  I just copied and pasted your answer and sent it to BobE at TK.  We'll see what he has to say.  Thanks for the get back.

backwoods sawyer:
31K which includes the sharpener and tooth setter, 36 blades and the mud saw.   
Did I ever mention that I basically grew up in Winston?  Kind of feel we're neighbors.  Bet we could play the, "Do you know...?" or " Do you remember when...?" games and get a match or two.  I would like to get with you some time when your up my way (Salem) and see you work!  Might even tail a board or two for you.  Mostly to pick your mind though.

furu:
  I opted for their delivery because it's winter and there are two or three high elevation passes to navigate.  I did get a price knock off on the delivery charges which are really outrageous.  But I can still back out of that as I only have a down payment out of pocket.  So, tell me more!

Tom the Sawyer:
 I keep hearing solenoid problems! Are they not using a tough enough one or what?   Must be nice living next to THE parts house.





 

[jake]

Hi Stevem, and congrats on the new TK 1600!  I don't have nearly the experience and know how of mountainlake or Tom the Sawyer (who have often given me priceless advice) but I too have a b20 and could not be happier with the mill or with TK.  Good luck and look forward to hearing more when you get going, jake.

[Stevem]

Thank you

[backwoods sawyer]

Little Jo is from the stayton area, we make it up there ever so often to visit family, hope to stop in for a visit sometime when we are in the ares.
Sounds like good reasons to add a mill to your operation.

Mud saw and sharpening equipment will sure save you in the long run.

[furu]

furu:
  I opted for their delivery because it's winter and there are two or three high elevation passes to navigate.  I did get a price knock off on the delivery charges which are really outrageous.  But I can still back out of that as I only have a down payment out of pocket.  So, tell me more!

Stevem

I will send you a PM.  At this stage I will refrain from going into any more details.  

  Fill us in on what problems you've been having and the fix, getting older but sometimes I remember these problems and it might help in the future.  Or maybe some one else has a fix for your problems.  On my B20 I've had maybe 3 thing I redesigned that weren't the best but every one has been working good now for thousands of hours..   Far as Mike goes he can be a little short but he knows the B20 inside out and gives me nothing but good advice.  Steve

mountainlake

I will detail the issues soon after the most recent one hopefully gets resolved.

[Tom the Sawyer]

The spare solenoid was a recommendation so I have one.  I have never had one fail (knock on wood). 

[xlogger]

Mike at TK does like to get to the point but I like his answers.

[mountainlake]

The spare solenoid was a recommendation so I have one.  I have never had one fail (knock on wood). 

 I've only replaced 2 so far but it's sure nice to have one with in case it goes out while sawing on the road.  Steve

[furu]

   Far as Mike goes he can be a little short but he knows the B20 inside out and gives me nothing but good advice.  Steve

I don't find him "short" at all.  I find that he does not listen.  He hears what he wants to hear not what you are actually saying or telling him.

Sometimes this type of fault in critical listening skills comes from someone who is so smart and knowledgeable about troubleshooting a problem that they are so far ahead of what you are describing that they think they know where you are going and they arrive at the destination without hearing/listening to what the other persons actually said.  The problem is they took the wrong road and arrived at the wrong destination.

In many of the conversations with Mike I have describe to him the issue.  Then he starts telling me what I need to do.  After several minutes of listening I realize that he has no idea what I previous said.  I stop him and re-explain the problem while he is saying you already told me that. 

At the end of the re-explanation I get the response: " Oh, sorry, I misunderstood what you said" and then I get another path to go down. 

If this happened once or twice I would/could understand and accept it.  It is an endemic issue that occurs quite frequently with Mike, thus my preference to talk with Jason as he listens to the issue.  I don't remember a single time that Jason has not gotten the issue the first time I explained it. He listens with good critical listening skills.

[furu]

These solenoids that you guys (Tom and Steve) are talking about.  If I understand the B20's that you have, they have a few more electrical circuits than the later models.  What type of solenoids are you referring to. 

Are they the same ones in the picture below.  I only have 1 of these on my mill but have had  problems with the one.  On my third solenoid in 18 months.

[mountainlake]

 
 Our B20 mills use 4 solenoids to run the electric head up and down, I've had to replace 2 in 11000 hours which  is acceptable .  I found a real good deal on Amazon on the B20 solenoids $7.95 each so I stocked up.  I'm thinking yours is the starter solenoid??  It looks the same as our up down ones.  If that is your starter solenoid and going out 3 times in 18 months is way too much, is your mill hard starting, if so the first thing I'd do is put some good heavy battery cables on it.  Steve

[furu]

Yes 2 in 11000 hours is more than acceptable it is fantastic.

No it is the Debarker solenoid. 

I can find them from $25+ and up on line.  TK has been good on replacing them under warrantee so far but that is about to end so I am looking at a source if I can't find some way to stop the failures.

If you could check/take a look at yours to see if they are the same as your up/down ones that would be appreciated.  It would not surprise me to see they are the same as it would keep the supply stock requirement smaller to use the same part on the B20 and the newer series mills. 
White Rodgers 70-111224-5 is the part.

[backwoods sawyer]

You guys are lucky I have three styles of solenoids. The lightest ones look like that one but the others are heavier.  two are double ended.
I replace the ones in the hydraulic box the most often, every time you grab a lever they are engaging this can be several times a min while positioning logs.
One of the things that I worked with little Jo on while she was learning the mill was to transition from one hydraulic function to the next with out the hydraulic pumps disengaging rather then banging the contacts dozens of times do the same process. She runs it very smoothly now. Same with the up down forward reverse,

[mountainlake]

 



NEW 12V 150A CONTINUOUS DUTY SOLENOID FITS RELAY FOR GOLF CARTS 1114208 ( About $15 )
This one off Amazon should work and hopefully cure it going out,  the one TK uses is rated at 80 amps and this is 150.. I can easily see a debarker motor using more than 80 amps sometimes  Steve

[mountainlake]

 

 Kinda along the same line, on my B20 the up- down motor was protected by a 40 amp auto reset circuit break which was a joke. I replaced it with a 100 amp manual circuit breaker outside of the electric box and its been working great ever since.   Steve

[furu]

NEW 12V 150A CONTINUOUS DUTY SOLENOID FITS RELAY FOR GOLF CARTS 1114208 ( About $15 )
This one off Amazon should work and hopefully cure it going out,  the one TK uses is rated at 80 amps and this is 150.. I can easily see a debarker motor using more than 80 amps sometimes  Steve

Thanks.  Those are heavier duty and cheaper than the White Rodgers solenoid.

I don't know if it is the motor frying it or if it is a moisture problem.  TK thinks moisture, they want me to try coating it in the plastic dip that folks use on tools.  They apparently tried a water resistant solenoid and gave up on it and went back to this one. 

The most recent failure I heard happen.  I turned it on and nothing happened then after a 5 -6 second delay there was a pop and the motor started to run.  After I turned it off it would never re-engage.  When energized the magnet is energized as it will hold a screwdriver to the body but the contactor will not engage anymore.