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Author Topic: think twice about woodmizer  (Read 11274 times)

Offline red oaks lumber

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think twice about woodmizer
« on: March 02, 2016, 08:58:56 PM »
this posting isn't a personal gripe or attack against woodmizer,more of an airing of problems that have been on going regarding woodmizer products.
 the company problems started when they became employee owned.wood mizer was founded on sound business practices,quality at a fair price. iv'e been fairly quite about the problems we have been having with w.m products and parts but,it's now reached a point i can no longer sit by and not warn others of the problems we and other bigger producers have been dealing with.
 in calendar year 2015 we spent close to $150,000 on wood mizer equipment. the first day we fired up the edger the problems started,3 days later and talking to over 10 people at w.m we were no closer to having any answers than the first day. 2 weeks went by with no resolve,it was only after we demanded a new edger did we start getting answers. the first 3 months the edger was down for a total of 1 1/2 months. pretty sad right? finally when the blade collar hubs were completly worn out because of poor manufacturing.w.m sent us new parts(get this from poland) we sat for 13 days waiting for parts,they finally show up ....wrong parts  >:( so we wait again. new parts last 2 weeks.dead in the water.we demand a new edger! finally they agree to replace the junk one.
the new edger shows up we needed to take the lasers off the old one and wire the new one ,we were instructed to just follow how the old one was wired.no problems well ,not really put the power to it and fried something. there had been revisions done but we were not told anyway found the small electronic part called w.m they have to get the part from poland .$12 part are you kidding me ? we bought one on amazon for $11 .
 we finally get the new edger fired up,it won't hold size or repeat size. so ,losing more production the bore on the clampable hub was to big,i cut a pop can for a shim which was about .030" thick.hum? works now >:(
 lets talk about the mill >:( other than constaly replacing bearings,electrical componets,computer parts and other parts that shouldn't need replacing in 100hrs.use i found computer glitches that w.m set upgrades for,get this it fixed that problem but created more in the meantime. the lube pump just failed earlier this week.w.m said it must have froze.no,our shop is heated to 55 deg. constant. nice try guys >:(
 now we will move to our sharpener, we sharpened 8 blades,the cbn wheel is wore out ,the grinding compound has worn off.$200 wheel ? after talking with friends the sharpener wasn't even set from the factory correctly.
 i know w.m has gotten tired of hearing from us cuz,now they won't even return calls. i have talked with the ceo and the number 2 in control numerous times expressing our frustrations about sub par parts only to get lip service :) saw blades well that's another issue they can't get a handle of. blades breaking in the welds, new blades that need to be rolled flat before using  :(
 if w.m. spent time and money fixing problems instead of just throwing parts at the problem ,they might actually make headway.
i'm only writing this the shed light on a very serious problem ,if enough people start voicing their problems maybe w.m. will make changes if not atleast this might help people  make desicions based on less than stellar feedback. i could keep going but, i'll stop for now
thanks for taking the time to read our struggles with a manufacture
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline furu

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2016, 01:54:40 AM »
Sorry to hear of the issues you have been having.  I decided not to get a WM back when I was doing my research due to the issues that I read about folks having. 
Nothing like what you describe, however. 
It really hits you hard as you are a full time business and down time is critical.

Hopefully it will get better.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline mountainlake

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2016, 05:17:01 AM »

  Not only WM, way too many company's use their good name to sell junk trying to make big profits right now ruining that good name. That so called management doesn't care as they will be living off their inflated pensions by time that good name is ruined.  Not much integrity left anymore.  Steve

Offline xlogger

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2016, 05:51:09 AM »
I almost got a new wm 35 before I got my TK but after thinking about it I figured out I might not know enough about how to work on it to have one. The TK is easier to work on but for sure they are all high on parts and the parts are getting worst (mostly China). I always look other places for replacement parts. sorry to heard you had so much problems.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 05:53:55 AM »
Thanks Red Oaks for your honest opinion, and thanks Kirk for his right to say it. I ran a LT-70 WM for a couple of years and liked it, but the electronics was like a bag (not hefty) of poop hanging over your head. No telling when glitches would rear their ugly head. Its sad to hear their headed down the corperate low road. The band mill I built wile much slower and not as pretty is simple, reliable and given me no problems for 15 years. Frank C.

Offline HaroldCR

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 06:00:03 AM »

 WOW !!!  That's tough to swallow. Can't even sell the junk to try to stay afloat ?

Way too much of this happening in the USA, the dumping grounds of the world. Sadly, it's becoming a way of life these days.

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 06:59:46 AM »
i would love to get rid of the equipment and start over but, who would buy it? how cheap would it need to be to entice a buyer? sadly we are stuck with our equipment. fearing the date coming up when the warranty exspires >:( i reached out to other friends to join this forum ,in part so they can add their frustration but,mostly they be apart of a great and open forum!
 we have switched to kasco blades which so far seem very good and affordable.we have ordered rix saw grinding wheels which come highly recommended.
 please anybody else having problems feel free to tell your story. i just don't want this to become a open rant
thanks
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline HaroldCR

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 09:32:57 AM »
 Probably not what you want to hear, but, as you are finding out, after market stuff is the best way out of your problems. Seems you are already on your own, if they won't answer or reply to your calls-questions.

 Something really weird and needs fixing, post images, (yes, I'm about to go all in and figure out this posting images thing)  ;D, and be more than happy to offer advice, as bandmiller2 would also ?, on how to get the equipment running dependably.

 Other reason we built, is, parts readily available off the shelf, or, make them ourselves.

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 11:03:39 AM »
as of this post,the sawing end is at a stand still....waiting >:( one thing that is becoming clear,wm needs to be held accountable. i'm by no means making any threats but,i am putting a plan together that might just become landmark.
this is one dog that wm shouldn't have tried petting ;D  i will keep everyone updated
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline Stevem

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 11:35:21 AM »
Screwing with the buying public is not like it used to be.  The internet has changed that.
Stevem
Because you can doesn't mean you should!

Offline HaroldCR

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 01:10:30 PM »

 The problem is, people are getting so used to shoddy products, they just don't expect good service or quality, anymore.
 My son has built a reputation with the money crowd in his area, to the extent that, when a client sells their house, the new owner is told Ed is the only guy you need for repairs or problems. Don't even bother looking elsewhere. He never advertises and has more work than he can possible handle, and really goes overboard to please them all.

 This is getting unheard of, anymore.  Good luck with your plan and BE CAREFUL how it's executed. There are spies lurking here that report back to HQ.  >:(

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2016, 01:35:33 PM »
thanks harold
i certainly have no plans of discussing details of our situation other than saying,stay tuned :)
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline xlogger

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2016, 04:26:04 PM »
just reading over some past posts, reply #3 on the TK 2000 vs Baker Bluestreak are you one in the same? ???

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 04:59:56 PM »
ricky
sadly i stand by my order of mills. even with all the b.s we are going thru i feel wm is still head and shoulders above others >:( could i recommend one to someone else? yes, if its no newer than 2008 . i looked today since july 2015 we have had over 30 parts warrantied not including the 60 something blades fail in the weld or having the edger replaced :(
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline xlogger

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2016, 04:18:38 AM »
I agree with on the mills you placed in order, when I was looking to upgrade from my WM I liked both Baker and Cooks. But the TK I got (used) was at a price that agree with me more. Now I'm pretty satisfied with it. But any mill will give you trouble and lately I've heard more trouble from WM than most.
By the way, I got my kiln running and when ahead and got the Nyle 53 that you suggested.

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2016, 07:17:44 AM »
ricky
i'm happy to hear your getting your operation going,you've been working on it for awhile. as to the w.m issues,reading alot of posts on forums it becomes clear there is a huge quality issue among wm owners. sad just sad
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline mountainlake

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2016, 02:44:17 PM »
  The reason I didn't buy a LT 40 when I bought my B20
  I didn't like the electic over hyd pumps at all, too complicated and could only be run with the head back.
  The claw turner which has trouble turning snarly log, I've had WM mills saw for me
  No standard setworks
  Electric head drive.
 Swing up log stops which don't seem to saw square lumber with the WM mills that sawed for me
  Cantilevered head which saws fine but is harder to adjust and keep adjusted
  Swing out log supports on the end, not real tough
  And the price back 12 years ago, WM was $10000 more for way less mill
  And yes I think WM quality was good but going down hill fast.  I bought 10 WM Silverstreak blades last summer that cut so bad I took them back, the saw shop didn't even seem surprised . Another online place that sells Simonds, Lennox, Dakin Flasthers and WM Silvertip is dropping WM blades for quality reasons.
 I still like Simonds the best. 


 If I posted my honest opinion on that that other forum I'd be kicked off, thanks adims.

  Far as other mills I know TK has a couple of issues with their new mills but most easy fixes that don't cost much.  Baker and Cook look real nice on vids but don't know if they have any issues. When my B20 was  new I had about 3 things I had to redesign which didn't cost much and it has worked great in over 11000 hours, I go out sawing expecting not nothing to break rather wondering what's going to break.
                                                    Steve

« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 02:53:19 PM by mountainlake »

Offline xlogger

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2016, 06:54:07 AM »
Steve got a question for you on the kiln section.

Offline 4x4American

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2016, 07:48:25 PM »
ROL,

Sorry to hear about your woes..
I hope that you get them straightened up and flying right because it's a doggone shame the path they're on.

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Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2016, 09:07:33 PM »
i can say this,we atleast have their attention >:( the tone towards us now is more combative. hum i don't recall that trait being a winner in customer service :laugh:
 i know we are screwed once the warranty expires but, live and help others learn i guess.
the other issue is the wisconsin asc  we sent bands for re sharp over, i repeat over 2 months ago .still nothing they said they were shipping for sure 1 week ago,talked to him today.guess what?still sitting there >:( how the hell can people run business's of the likes and still stay in business? my son asked today about looking into being a asc(authorized service center) i looked at him and started laughing.any other company i might consider but,i'm not putting my name with a company like wood mizer.
 can you sense a little bitterness creeping into my being?
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2016, 07:12:22 PM »
Red Oaks have you considered going to/or back to a circular head rig. A decent sawyer with even a handset circular mill can keep up with a computerized band saw. Its old technology but we're still cutting the same old logs. Its a tough break to have spent all that money with little to show. Good luck mate. Frank C.

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2016, 05:55:43 PM »
frank
we have been thinking about alot of things.i'll adress this thread then start another on differant struggles. we are pushing numbers to see if we just clear all the wm equipment out and start with a clean slate. going circle mill as our head rig is looking more likely than a few months ago.
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2016, 01:00:30 PM »
just an update on our woodmizer equipment, the warranty is coming up soon and i feel more confident now that once the warranty expires we are screwed >:(
 the last 6 calls to w.m looking for tech support have not been returned,really? yup, they don't even have the respect to return calls.i guess their way of fixing problems is don't acknowlege them >:( have i been the best customer? probably not but, a problem is still a problem. i hold people accountable if that means holding feet to the fire i will ,i don't yell or cuss i just expect results not excuses.
 fyi...baker is really starting to turn heads with their mills also customer service :)
follow your heart, the rest will happen

Offline furu

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2016, 02:33:44 PM »
Send them a certified letter detailing the issues and the date and times that you have tried to contact them and left messages, and their subsequent failure to return your calls.  

A certified letter detailing the warranty claims with proof of delivery will give you standing if you decide that you want to take further action even after the warranty period expires.  Of course that further action can cost money as well and may or may not make economic sense depending upon the nature of the issue.

It is interesting that a company that has reportedly had such a good customer service reputation seems to be having issues as of late.  There is an individual in Washington that could not get WM to give him the original Certificate of Origin so he could license his mill with DMV.  Eventually WM did supply it but it took a ridiculous amount of effort for something that WM should have supplied by default.

I know that my interactions/impressions of the WM rep/dealer in Oregon is one of the reasons why I did not buy a WM three years ago.  If that attitude is a corporate attitude of late they will chase more customers away.
Sorry for your ongoing issues.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline xlogger

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2016, 04:46:24 AM »
I watch a Baker mill run at the Richmond Expo last week. Really looks like a well built machine. One thing I didn't understand about them was the blades don't use any down pressure.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2016, 06:32:54 AM »
Baker uses steel crowned wheels and considerable tension on the band. Over the years their has been a lot of BS heisted upon us millers mostly by manufactures that want to convince us their machine is the cats ass. A lot of down pressure is sort of a crutch to make final point alignment easier. I think it has a detrimental effect on band flex life if used to extremes. My home built band mill uses minimal down pressure on the flanged guides just enough so they turn with the band, sure makes it easy to tell if the band is starting to dive. This is one old pharts opinion. Frank C.

Offline mountainlake

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2016, 09:17:59 AM »

  Baker is using sandwich type guides on a 1 1/2" band which must work good if the guides are kept close to the band.. Over here I find that 1/4" down pressure cuts straighter than 1/8 " as the guide wheels are the closest to the log and 1/4"will have more control over the blade . Regarding mills I'll take hydraulics over electric any day.  Steve

Offline 4x4American

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2016, 08:15:16 PM »
I heard that Baker's "reverse flow edger system" they have been advertising on the back of sawmill and woodlot magazine that they were going to "reveal" at the richmond expo was quite impressive.  Would love to have seen it.
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Offline bandmiller2

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2016, 05:16:21 AM »
Baker mills have always come across to me as pro/semi pro. The ones I've seen in operation have been impressive. Don't think they court "backyard Johnny" Frank C.

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2016, 06:47:19 AM »
i have seen the reverse edging vidieo, looks very intersting. the complete setup is crowding $200 grand which sounds big but,you can run it with 1 less worker and have nice production.time will tell :)
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Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2016, 06:39:55 AM »
with our warranty ending date coming soon (june 26)  >:( the failures continue.the lube pump on our mill is mounted stationary on the wall which pumps from a 300 gallon tank.yesterday the third pump failed >:( talking to woodmizer(blocked our phone number) they basically said the failure was our fault.really? how is pumping water with a water pump our fault for failure?
the favorite line woodmizer likes to use,"that's the first time ----has failed" you can put any part in that blank space.so with no pump, yup we are dead in the water again.we are cutting 16' white pine ,blade lube is kind of important.
 when you get a sliver in your finger and it just irritates you?i'm the sliver in woodmizers finger ;D
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Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2016, 10:43:49 PM »
Had my truck stolen in Tacoma, WA several years ago where it was parked in front of the main door, under the lights and in full view of the camera. 

Front desk manager said nothing like this has ever happen! 

Cop taking the report said this was the third vehicle stolen from that parking lot in the last 5 days.

Just goes to show, never believe what your told!
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline 4x4American

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2016, 09:24:25 PM »
They blocked your phone number?!?
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Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: think twice about woodmizer
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2016, 06:35:26 AM »
no we block our number so they can't see who's calling >:(  you guys might be thinking that i'm just bitching but,if i can expose all the problems wm has with parts and equipment maybe just maybe someone else won't have to endure the b.s. we've been dealt.plus wm has internet trolls so i know all negative conversations get back to the "powers to be"for which i'll admit is kinda fun ;D all kidding aside i wish this thread never had to be started.
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