alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description

Author Topic: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)  (Read 201 times)

Offline RiverForest

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Topics: 3
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 0
Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« on: February 01, 2018, 01:34:51 AM »
Ox asked me about my mention of a project involving our domain, ODC.  To avoid going very far off topic on the lumber forum area I thought I'd bring it over here to respond, to put out some discussion points to see if anyone in this timber & saw mill community is interested.  I learn from comments and discussion and promise a thick skin will prevail regarding responses ;D.

The subject on the other thread involved privacy concerns and I brought up things like the email snooping that Google does to mine for advertising placements.  Then I brought up our project for using ODC, part of which would be as a home base for email accounts that would be left alone from snooping to benefit a site's advertising goals, among other features.

The web has become a privacy desert, driven most often by over the top advertising pressures to make up for free stuff.

That does not mean I all ads connote evil.  Nobody can or should complain about seeing advs when they are simply offered in reasonable fashion with good content, applications, etc.  This forum certainly qualifies.  But reading our emails or insisting on a ridiculous level of private information to use the service, etc?  That goes over the top,  IMHO, and many seem to agree.

In answering Ox's question about what we'd charge for email accounts & addresses using ODC, I said we are not far enough along for a good answer but my guess might be something like $25 annually.  I really don't know.  It will depend on lots of factors such as what we offer with it, etc.  Like war plans, it will likely change on first contact with the "outside world" during the more focused planning process.

Pay a small fee and get no snooping.  That is our major basic premise.  Advertising will still be involved but NOT in emails ("yahoo" on that!) and with a 100% up front of no requirement to participate or give up information, especially without really knowing when or about the consequences.  The most obtrusive thing we might ask for is your zip code.  Hard to call that too personal I hope.

Probably not a good idea for me to lay out too much more specific detailed stuff here at this point, but I hope the idea is clear and I hope it appeals at least somewhat to begin with.

One thing we really need is a marketing/advertising agency with some moxie, one where the principals have some optimism that ODC and our concept will prove successful.

A lot is predicated on how much the use of ODC as a domain works.  It will certainly make the marketing interesting and fun.  I could list a thousand ideas I have brainstormed: billboards, 5 second radio spots, and so much more that might be used.  Simple stuff, but trying hard for memorable.

Ordinay.com
What's more ordinary than that?

Ordinary.com
Go there and see why we put up this silly billboard [or radio spot]

The list is long in my brainstorming file; thank you apple for the notes app on my iPhone--I don't lose things for lack of a piece of paper and a pencil.

If anyone wants to take a quick trip over to our site (currently used for our restaurant and it is rather home-made, like our food), you can use one of the clicks there to send me an email.  I will at your request add your contact info to our list of interested folks to keep up with for the launch.

Housekeeping note: anything sent to any "at ordinary.com" address will get to us via our Catchall box for anything not assigned.  I use "ODC" to begin all subject lines about it, our Ordinary Dot Com acronym.  We will not share or otherwise do anything else with information you give us.

Any comments, thoughts, encouraging or skeptical, positive or negative?  Fire away.  We learn by listening👂.  Did you make it to the bottom?  Thank you and thanks to Kirk Allen for allowing this area for off-wood discussions!
Learning/listening mode works best coupled with a thick skin.  Share what you do know and what you learn when you can

Offline Ox

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
  • Topics: 16
  • Country: us
  • Trying to learn/remember something new every day.
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 09:27:08 AM »
It definitely sounds interesting, that's for sure. 

A suggestion:  Myself, I wouldn't want to pay money up front for a service I'm not sure I truly want yet.  There would have to be a 100% money back guarantee for a trial period.  Say, 30 days or something like that.

Another truth, just mine only:  I've been using yahoo forever.  It may not be the best but it works for me.  For free.  I have an ad blocker (free) that blocks all the ads and my emails always go through and I always get emails from people who send them.  I don't have any trouble with it.  I have many accounts in many different areas all using this email.  Things like bill paying, health care, machinery parts ordering, vehicle parts ordering, etc.  You get the picture.  I wouldn't want to have to change all of these things.  I also figure that even though they may me monitoring my habits to try to fire off ads in my direction, I'm not seeing them anyways due to the ad blocker!  So I would be inclined to stick with what I have for now.

Please don't take my words as bashing - this isn't my intention.  I think your idea is fantastic but you'll need to be able to prove your statements about privacy somehow and I don't know how to do that.  My words here are only meant for transparency so that you might see how somebody might think about your proposal.  I'll be following your progress on this one, for sure.  :)
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Online furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • Topics: 15
  • Country: 00
  • The path to the future is through the forestů
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2018, 04:52:44 PM »
I do not want to seem to be criticizing your plan but since you say you have a thick skin I will try to ask without insulting you.

I have mulitple questions or maybe just one that is long. 
I had the same email address from the mid 1990's until 2003 when it got very compromised and in addition the company that I had it through was basically ceasing to exist.

At that point I had to notify so many folks what my new email address was going to be that I decided that I would never ever change email addresses again in that manner 

I created a domain of my own and registered it with a company and as part of that deal I got 2000 different email accounts and 10,000 forward emails addresses.  As a result I have a lot of flexibility. 
I create an email address for purpose XXXX@ mydomain.com  and only give that address out to the limited number companies/people that are connected to that email subject. 
If it gets compromised I only have to notify a limited number of folks of the replacement address. 

The email server on their end could, just like the NSA, grab out whatever data from any email that is desired but barring having you own web hosting company I am not certain what can be done to limit that.  A VPN might help but you still have the issue of the host playing games with the email. 

How exactly are you planning on giving any more protection to a subscriber than any other domain hosting entity.  It seems from what you have posted that you registered the domain      ordinary.com       and are via a subscription selling/providing an email address with the ordinary.com email server.  I.E. johnsmith @ordinary.com
That seems pretty much what you are talking about from what I am reading. 

How is your plan any more secure and protected than any other email address.  I know google/yahoo/fb  and most free email address capture data as "payment" for their free services.  However any mail server can do that mine, yours etc.  I know of no one that likes that and that seems to be your proposed selling point for your services.

I guess my questions can be boiled done to just this:
What makes your system better than buying/paying for your own domain and having any email address that you want?

What am I missing. 

You stated:

"Probably not a good idea for me to lay out too much more specific detailed stuff here at this point, but I hope the idea is clear and I hope it appeals at least somewhat to begin with."

Without any more details I can't understand or evaluate what you are offering thus my questions.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline RiverForest

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Topics: 3
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2018, 10:02:34 PM »
Couldn't ask for better questions.  Don't take this relatively brief response as dismissal or disinterest, just trying to catch up, as always, watering all my varied interests in turn.  More to come later.  Well, it started off brief.

The basic point that people will resist paying for what they can get for free is a tough one, agreed.  Can we offer uniqueness (maybe I underplayed that in my tome) and other features that users want?  We'll see.

You're right, having an ODC address does not protect you from outside snoopers, just from provider snooping, etc.  Some folks might consider that very important.

Frankly I do NOT trust Google to not be evil, though they could be worse.

The address stability thing might mean our target market might be newer users, not sure on that.  Many folks have multiple addresses, as do I, and we use the same catchall thing that one of you referred to, for diffferent places we're asked to leave an email address.  That can cause confusion when we reply to emails directed to one of them, since we cannot reply from most of them, but only from a main address.

Try that when you make a political contribution and see how many times they sell your address and to whom.  The parties have no shame.

We get fairly regular inquires about buying the domain, with one as high as (discussing) 6 figures (not a formal offer).  Most are 5 figures.  Most are pretty obviously domain investors, which could be taken as the domain being worth a good multiple of what they offer, since why would else would they want it?

Frankly, I think buying a domain without a use in mind is like buying land without a use in mind.  Very speculative and risky.  I believe at least some of the inquiries were from agents for end users with something in mind.  Wish I knew what, which also makes me cautious in saying too much about the larger scale application and adv plans I have in mind, given all the bot tech out there probing, sniffing, probing.  The more I can make it unique to ODC itself, the safer.

Thanks for the considered responses.  I do appreciate the challenge.  Asking/answering questions is something every wise person from Socrates forward knows is a great teaching/learning tool.  When I taught Accounting at VCU (in Richmond VA), I tried to go beyond asking rote learning questions.  Tell me what and then I'll ask you how & why.
Learning/listening mode works best coupled with a thick skin.  Share what you do know and what you learn when you can

Online furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • Topics: 15
  • Country: 00
  • The path to the future is through the forestů
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2018, 02:33:43 AM »

  Many folks have multiple addresses, as do I, and we use the same catchall thing that one of you referred to, for diffferent places we're asked to leave an email address.  That can cause confusion when we reply to emails directed to one of them, since we cannot reply from most of them, but only from a main address.

The system that I have also has a catchall address that I refer to as the dead letter box. 
Any email address that is sent:     anything-I-have-not-setup-as-a-valid-address@mydomain.com will go to the box ( I can also set it up to disappear into the ether if I choose. 
I then can have any other email accounts I want

jack@mydomain.com
jill@mydomain.com
peter@mydomain.com
david@mydomain.com
dolores@mydomain.com
samantha@mydomain.com

These can be set up and I can email from each and everyone of them.  I do not have to use the main address.

I can also set up forward emails that forward to a main address such as postbox@mydomain.net
I then can have forwarded email accounts

Tim@mydomain.com
Tom@mydomain.com
Dell@mydomain.com
computer@mydomain.com
archery@mydomain.com

These all get forwarded to the  postbox@mydomain.net email account.  The cool thing is I see them as if they are a totally separate email account even though they are just a forward.  I can then set up Outlook (I also do this with the android app) so that I can email anyone I want from the forward email address as if it was a real account not a central postbox@mydomain.net account.  You the receiver of the email can not tell the difference unless you are technically adept enough to go in and look at the internet header data which probably less than 1 in a 10000 folks can do and it makes no difference even if they do go looking.  Again it gives me great flexibility.


We get fairly regular inquires about buying the domain, with one as high as (discussing) 6 figures (not a formal offer).  Most are 5 figures.  Most are pretty obviously domain investors, which could be taken as the domain being worth a good multiple of what they offer, since why would else would they want it?

Frankly, I think buying a domain without a use in mind is like buying land without a use in mind.  Very speculative and risky.  I believe at least some of the inquiries were from agents for end users with something in mind.   

Maybe it is terminology when you say "buying the domain, with one as high as (discussing) 6 figures (not a formal offer).  Most are 5 figures."

I guess I say buy when in reality it is more like a rent or lease.  As long as I pay my month or yearly fee (actually 6 months at a time) I "own" the domain and it is mine; registered to me for all to see unless I request private registration.

Here are some screen grabs of  pricing.  I tried to remove all evidence of the company I use so as to not have any perception that I am pushing them.  I have looked at others that are a little more expensive but not a lot.

For this example I used sawmillandtimberforum.net to trigger the pricing screens.  I did not go any further with this domain.

You can see the pricing for a combined package of web hosting domain and email. All this for 7.99 per month (I ignore the promo pricing as it does not last.)




In this plan you have 100 email address



If you want just the domain it is $19.99 per year.  (I ignore the promo pricing as it does not last.)




There are lots of plans to build what you want and nothing more.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3052
  • Topics: 252
  • In God We Trust!
  • Referrals: 7
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2018, 10:58:37 AM »
Late to the discussion and definitely not tech savvy but if I understand what you're attempting to offer can be summed up as follows.

Your email server will not "bot" the emails it hosts, thus reducing the advertisements that seem to pop up after we email people about a certain subject. 

Is that a VERY condensed example of what you're trying to accomplish?


Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Online furu

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • Topics: 15
  • Country: 00
  • The path to the future is through the forestů
  • Referrals: 4
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2018, 01:51:40 PM »
It will be interesting to see what the response is but I think you have boiled it down well to the nuts and bolts of the benefit that he is planning on offering. 
Keeps saying that he doesn't want to give out too many details so it has left me guessing on those details and thus trying to draw out and get a better idea by putting out the scenarios that I personally use.  Using cost examples of plans similar to but not the same as mine is again an effort to draw out more details on how and what he is really offering. 
I am not certain but I think his plan would have each participant getting an email address that would basically be
John.Smith@ordinary.com
for the email address but you would only have one of those for whatever pricing he determines down the road. I think his email service domain is or would be ordinary.com with all email addresses that he provides using that domain.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline RiverForest

  • Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 19
  • Topics: 3
  • Country: us
  • Referrals: 0
Re: Ordinary Dot Com (ODC for short)
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2018, 12:22:56 AM »
 I'm not ignoring this thread, and I do appreciate you spending time responding. I'll jump back in soon as I can with more thoughts on what you asked/posed.

And please remember that for me, this is an evolving idea, and any/all may change in response to your commentary/challenges & that of others.  Learning/listening/constructive responding mode is on.   Again, thanks.
Learning/listening mode works best coupled with a thick skin.  Share what you do know and what you learn when you can