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Author Topic: olimpics  (Read 7991 times)

Offline starmac

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olimpics
« on: February 15, 2018, 03:18:35 PM »
The night before last I was watching the olimpics and watched a young man bring home the gold in the snowboard half pipe competition.

I am not a follower of the sport, but have to give them credit, it takes a lot of talent to do the things they do, and I imagine a lot of bumps, bruises and worse to get to the point of being a world contender.

I think the guy was Shaun White and he seemed to be a nice young man, but he did something that to my way of thinking was very disturbing, especially since he was representing our country.
I will be the first to admit I do not follow all of societys rules, especially the politically correct rules, but he dragged  our flag all the way off the field and even stepped on it at least once. Even my wife said something about it.

I noticed that it made fox news yesterday, apparently he had caught hell on twitter, he claimed it was an accident and didn't know he was dragging it, but that was a flat out lie, because at one time he looked back and started to gather it up, then just decided it was too much trouble and let it loose and continued on.
Maybe, they teach  a different flag etiquet these days.

Offline furu

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 08:23:22 PM »
I watched that and commented to my wife at the time that it was gross disrespect. 
The excuse of he got caught up in the moment and the excitement is probably true.  He has probably never done anything other than be a professional snowboarder and to be honest that lifestyle seems to be a bit bohemian and therefore he has no reason in his life to have the respect that many of us have because of what we have done and where we have been and what we have gone through. 
His generation has a reputation of being "all about me" mentality and so he just does not get it and there is no instinct that would make him try to protect the flag.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2018, 08:37:04 PM »
Did not see it, and only a partial news report, but really, in my mind, the tides are turning for what seems a lot less (true patriotism) and a (usa) emphasis on lower case mine, total lack of the true meaning of representing our country,, for years many of these athletes have trained, toiled for their personal achievements, even coached to think of (me) only.  Team sports excluded of course, so to think at the moment the spot light is on them in that moment each one has dreamed of,,I can see a lot of careless acts of lack of patriotism.  It does not mean its' not there, its just not the main thing.  My opinion, and many athletes, even in these games have chosen to use the platform for personal and political gain.  Right or wrong,,?? My honest feelings are the true hero's, the ones that have and are defending the Flag, with their very lives, they are the ones that I have the deepest level of respect and honor.

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 01:28:19 AM »
Personal or political gain, you must be talking about the queer figure skater, that now has a VOICE and wants to use it.

Offline drobertson

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 07:46:09 AM »
yea he is one of them,  one of the skiers and possibly the snow board dude, but for sure the' speed skater, that wanted to carry the flag,, just saying there is more of a growing (its' all about me) sentiment in today's society than has been for such a long time.  There seems to be more present reminder every day of just how (limp) the standards we once knew have now become,,
 
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 09:10:50 AM by drobertson »

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 07:17:50 PM »
wow !!
did you just call a skater queer? and a snow boarder a bohiemin? you guys are talking about respecting and all youv'e done is disrespect :-[
the respect and morals have been sliding since the 80's there isn't a politiacan in america that dosen't disrepect the flag everyday.look back over the past 30 yrs in sporting events and you will find the flag being "disrespected" often.
 when an athlete wraps the flag around themselves, it's all pride for their country. i think a few here should open their eyes more and close their mouths ever more. SMH
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Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2018, 09:11:52 PM »
I believe the skater was the black gay? skater that felt he was wronged because a coin toss was done over carrying the flag and he lost.  I have no respect for a person that thinks their voice matters because of their skin color or sexual preference.   

As far as calling him queer, I think they call themselves that don't they?  LGBTQ and the Q is for queer so I'm confused as to what the issue is with using that term? 
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Offline drobertson

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2018, 08:44:07 AM »
You know, I thought about the idea of disrespecting the disrespectful, and it is kind of what's the word, contradictory,? kinda,  but I wont' let that bother me or bog down the topic. I will say there were 234 or there about athletes that represented the USA, not counting the coaching staff and other important personnel.  And I know not all of them were about any certain soap box for political or personal gain other than what the goal is for any athlete that trains for a medal.  So to these folks my hats off to them for the deliberate and honest hard work in their respective sport(s) and I would be the first to say I'm proud of them as a fellow American, and stand beside them in their quest for excellence.  I suppose it would be better to just not even think about the above ones mentioned and let them go down in history as what they are.

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2018, 12:01:12 PM »
Of course I called him a queer, he used his voice to tell the world he is queer  and intends to use it more to push his views and run down our government, what else would you call him, except maybe a queer activist, which is what he is.

Two of the athletes have run down the white house, and have said they will not visit it, one  I know is the queer activist, I am not 100% sure who the other one was.

The snowboarder that drug and stepped on the flag, did apologize and even though him claiming he didn't know he was dragging it was an outright lie, I will say he may have been caught up in the moment of winning the gold so much he was not thinking straight, I can sure see that.

On another note, a little bitty girl from the Netherlands won the gold in  high speed skating. It was said that she did not even know when the olympics were, they just told her she was going and hurry up and pack your bags, then she took the gold. I thought that was pretty neat.

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2018, 01:41:32 PM »
Apparently the other athlete that got political and claimed she wouldn't visit the white house was Lindsey Vonn, the alpine skier.

Offline furu

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2018, 02:58:10 PM »
.........He has probably never done anything other than be a professional snowboarder and to be honest that lifestyle seems to be a bit bohemian and therefore he has no reason in his life to have the respect that many of us have because of what we have done and where we have been and what we have gone through. 
His generation has a reputation of being "all about me" mentality and so he just does not get it and there is no instinct that would make him try to protect the flag.

An accurate look at my statement it can readily be seen than I said "that lifestyle seems to be a bit bohemian."  I did not call him a bohemian.  I did not "disrespect" him at all.  I called out his actions as disrespectful of our national flag.

 Reference definition of bohemian
https://www.google.com/search?q=bohemian&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

Bo·he·mi·an
bōˈhēmēən/

adjective
adjective: Bohemian; adjective: bohemian

    1.
    relating to Bohemia or its people.
    2.
    having informal and unconventional social habits.
    "the bohemian writer's drafty-garret existence"
    synonyms:   unconventional, nonconformist, unorthodox, avant-garde, irregular, offbeat, alternative[/b];

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I know that Red Oaks Lumber has been very vocal about helping the veteran.  From a post he started some time back.  I admire him for his comments.

a few months ago we hired a new fella.turns out to be a several tour iraq war veteran,(thank you) .i'm seeing first hand just how screwed up these soldiers are when they return.
 this guy suffers badly from ptsd (post tramitic stress disorder) tbi (tramatic brain injury) he had his humvee blown up, lost several of his fellow soilders.he has seen his buddies blown up,shot.he also has shot and blown up iraqi soilders. this poor guy can't sleep at night,will suddenly have bad anxiety attacks, flash backs.the v.a isn't doing much in regards to offering solutions for the returning troops. >:(my only help to him,i sit and listen and engage him about his problems.i told him yesterday, anytime you start struggling,get me or call me i'm here to help.
reason i started a thread on this topic,most americans don't understand or know the sacrifice these young men and women give and how crappy the government treats them upon returning.
thank you

the vets protect and service so people like myself can go about life as we know it. back in 1991 the  persian gulf war, a very good friend of mine was deployed to go to iraq. they started in kuwait but invaded iraq.anyway , he was there 9 months before coming home. he and i worked together so ,every day at lunch he would just talk of the things he saw and was forced to do. life seemed to be returning to normal,he was ajusting nicely (so it seemed).then out of the blue one day his wife called and told me gary went for a walk and didn't come home :'( suicide by pistol
 to this day i'm bothered by not seeing or feeling anything out of normal :( so  i have the chance to do more and damnit i'm going to do my best

Having said and quoted Red Oaks Lumber  above I think he has a good heart but I have to say this. 

Title 4 US Code 8 details how our flag is to be treated.  Even liberal left wing media was taking to the air with comments about the incident.  There was a Twitterstorm whatever that really means about his actions.  Yes he apologized somewhat.  He got caught up in the moment. 
But...................................

I have tremendous respect for out flag and our country.  True respect, not simply an admiration for someone who has an amazing talent and athletic ability.

Maybe it is because every day, pretty much the first thing that I experience and am reminded of again are my physical deficits as a result of what I lost during my service to this great country and everything our country and flag represents. Our flag is a symbol of what we represent as a country.  No, we are not perfect, who and what is, but we are the best out there. 

When someone wraps themselves in the flag then drops it on the ground, then drags it and then steps on it at least one time maybe another; Yes I am upset, I have no respect for that person no matter how much they were caught up in the moment.  They turn around and clearly see the flag being drug on the ground and instead of being horrified and doing something about it they turn and continue as before dragging our great flag.   

I have had many friends and unfortunately many more acquaintances who have taken their last trip home covered with the flag of this great country.  They deserved the honor of being covered or "wrapped" with our flag.  I honor them I respect them and I treasure the memories of them. 

So yes I am bothered a great deal by his actions and anyone who defends those actions.
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Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2018, 07:48:12 PM »
Well even if you had of called him a bohemian, that is no insult. I lived part of my youth in a bohunk community, good folks in my opinion.

Offline Ox

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2018, 09:44:17 AM »
It seems being queer today is something to be celebrated so apparently it's a compliment to be called queer.  At least in a liberal's twisted and defunct way of thinking.  I remember back in school if somebody was queer they kept it a secret for fear of reprisals.  Today kids think it's cool to be queer because it immediately makes them different and cool.  It's bizarre.

Anyways, liberals love labels and queers love the label queer.  Many of them flaunt it and organize whole parades around it.  I really didn't see the problem with calling that skater queer because it separates him from the others when describing somebody.  Same as the "red haired skater" or "the black skater".  Not a big deal.  Maybe it could have been said with a tongue-in-cheek style commentary but that's only us mimicking our own sweet government.

It's all good.  :)
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Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2018, 07:41:52 PM »
lgbt q is for question not queer
seems i picked kind of a nerve. the word queer to refer to a homosexual male is disrespectful no buts about it. let me as this question for all that have responded to this thread....  would you be offended and hurt if one of these athletes being talked about here was your child?it's not us to judge, god is the only one qualified to do so.
 iv'e always supported veterans, there is no question about that. to me when the flag is disrespected. protests being stomped on, being burned in protest, other visual methods showing hate towards america. not handling the flag completley appropriate during celibration. i don't believe so. imho
 
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Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2018, 10:11:39 PM »
USA today says otherwise https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/01/lgbtq-questioning-queer-meaning/26925563/

Q can mean either 'questioning' or 'queer,' Fred Sainz, a spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, an organization that lobbies for LGBT rights, told USA TODAY Network. Either interpretation is accepted, he said.
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Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 04:23:08 AM »
One of the guys on the gun forum I am on, has a son that figure dance skated this evening, (I think that is what you call it)
He is currently holding down the bronze, but it all depends on how they score tomorrow, in what is called the free dance, I guess they add the score between the 2.

Offline joasis

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 06:32:06 AM »
lgbt q is for question not queer
 would you be offended and hurt if one of these athletes being talked about here was your child?it's not us to judge, god is the only one qualified to do so.
 


One of the toughest questions. God commands, God doesn't ask, God doesn't suggest.....He commands. That said, in the New Covenant, there is but one major commandment of Jesus. To love your neighbor. Not to judge your neighbor.  You can make a judgement about doing business with someone, or their character,  or their integrity....and we are human, and humans are broken by design....but I do not judge others because I don't know their hearts. That is left for God. God leaves us to judge their actions.

Now, that said.....I would be hurt if my child was attacked in any way.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 08:06:51 AM »
ROL, there ain't no hurt feelings here buddy, fact is I get sick of how the media seemily crames this alternative life style down our throats,  I get sick of it, I do turn it, I'm glad that the "beat bobby flay" is  on at the same time,, I like that show,

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 11:54:42 AM »
Well they just keep adding letters to there,whatever the hell you want to call it, but right after they decided to add the Q, some were interviewed and claimed they themselves wanted to be called Queer, with a capital Q. Iirc the interview was in Colorado, can't give any names, because I didn't pay a whole lot of attention.

If we don't call them Queer, what should we call them, and don't say gay, that is and has been a word forever that they hijacked and distorted for their agenda, it has a meaning and it has NOTHING to do with being Queer, period.

There was another athlete performed last night, I do not know if he was queer or not, but his supporters were waving the Queer flags, made to look like The US flag, complete with stars, there is nothing right about representing our country or flag like that, people going along with it is one of the things that has gone wrong with the country.

Offline red oaks lumber

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 06:24:52 PM »
if we don't call them queer , then what should we call them? hmmm. how about a human or an american or a homosexual or gay.
i guess why should the rainbow flag offend anyone? i think a few here are homophobic. personally i don't give a shit what sexual oriantation someone relates with, they are alot truer to themselves than the vast majority of  hetorosexuals.
 personally i have alot of character flaws than i need to work on long before i try to judge how others should live or act. and so should others.
side note... i have 2 nephews that are gay, 1 is now 21 yrs old the other is 13 yrs. also my wife's store landlords are a gay couple. you can really expand your mind vistiting with them. you should try it.
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Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 06:57:14 PM »
My wifes sister is queer as a 3 dollar bill, and she will tell you herself she is messed up.

I do not care if you want to fly a queer flag, but it shouldn't be made to look like the US flag and flown in a way as to supposedly represent our country.

News flash, queer and gay has two different meanings, no matter what the queers want folks to think, it was a word long before the queers highjacked it.

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 04:55:45 AM »
People today get hung up on "words". The words used today had a totally different meaning just 30 years ago. Read Websters if you don't think so.

 My older brother was "different". My Son and I worked throughout the "different" community for years doing home improvements/remodeling/handyman jobs, in South Florida. They are real people, except for the weird ones that garner more attention. Their money was good, they KNOW what they want job wise, and we were begged to do major remodeling of apartment buildings, Salons, etc. in their home based states.

 As far as friends, I would have many of them over a LOT of "straights". As far as the snide cracks/comments, they are made by uninformed people. We were treated with the utmost respect because were treated them the same way.

 I'm against the copy American flag for their own, the ones we worked with are very intelligent and don't "need' the BS created by the attention seekers. Most are Professionals and work hard to get ahead and are wealthy. They trade amongst their own community same as the Jewish and help each other to do well. How many do y'all know that go out of their way to help others get ahead ??

 They have a tough row to hoe, but, if given respect, make very good friends and clients.

Offline Ox

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 09:11:35 AM »
I won't disrespect the ones that don't try to get more attention and just go on about their lives and contribute to society.  What the hell do I care what they do in the bedroom?  Do I think it's gross?  Yep.  But that don't matter.  As long as they ain't hurting anybody it don't matter.  This is America and they have that right and it don't matter if I agree with it or not.

We have a gay bank manager here in this little town of mine.  He's so flamboyant and prissy it makes me sick.  He comes on to ANY male that happens along, including my old man.  This is NOT acceptable in my eyes.  I had to sit down across the desk from this bastard while I opened my kids' savings accounts a few years back so they had somewhere to put their money gifts they sometimes get at holidays and birthdays.  He kept doing lots of innuendos and hints and generally made me very uncomfortable and I could feel my temper rising and I said a little prayer "please don't let me lose it in here".  I basically stared at the papers and just kept totally silent or grunted a yes or no when needed.  He got the hint pretty quick and then backed off and totally changed the way he was talking, stopped the California queer tactics, stopped the lisping s and actually acted like a normal dude.  It confirmed to me that these types like the attention, like to advertise, and generally act like nasty whores trying to pick up anything and everything they can.  Disgusting.
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Offline drobertson

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2018, 10:00:01 AM »
yep, we all, at least most of us know some folks that choose life partners of the same sex.  To be quite honest, I don't know  what its' like to have these feelings, so I would be ignorant to speak on the subject, other than to say, it seems like in today's  society, it is becoming a more normalized way of thinking, which results in  a more open and public display.  For me its always been a male and female kinda thing.  God made two sexes for reason of bringing another life into this world.  If folks of same sexes love each other so beit, but what does confuse me a little bit is this transgender issue that has really taken a grip on society.  I mean, if a man is a biological male, and a woman a biological woman,  whats' so hard to understand?  becoming another sex by any means other than what the good Lord gave is just contradictory in my mind.

Offline furu

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 11:53:04 AM »
if we don't call them queer , then what should we call them? hmmm. how about a human or an american or a homosexual or gay.
i guess why should the rainbow flag offend anyone? i think a few here are homophobic. personally i don't give a shit what sexual oriantation someone relates with, they are alot truer to themselves than the vast majority of  hetorosexuals.
 personally i have alot of character flaws than i need to work on long before i try to judge how others should live or act. and so should others.
side note... i have 2 nephews that are gay, 1 is now 21 yrs old the other is 13 yrs. also my wife's store landlords are a gay couple. you can really expand your mind vistiting with them. you should try it.

As we as a group so has society in general gotten hung up on labels and what labels mean.  There is a term used derogatorily for a certain race that is viewed as about the most disrespectful and racist term that can be used, but members of that race use it rather commonly and freely.  The so called "N-word"

It seems that there is a hangup in the term that was used to describe a skater on here. 
Not a term I would use but I also don't use a lot of terms like "black" or "African American or the racist term "white" (look up the etiology of where that came from if you doubt it). 
I have probably seen one individual who came from Nigeria that could have been classified as actually black.  Many Australian aborigines are actually darker in skin pigment than those that originated in or still live in Africa. Many folks from India are actually darker in skin pigment than those that originate from Africa.  I had a co-worker when I was in the service that was the closest of anyone that I have met to being "white" and he was nearly an albino.  Little to no skin pigment and he was far from "white".

The supposed disrespect that the term is being accused of showing is contradicted by the so called reality show "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" which was then changed to "Queer Eye"

Queer Eye is an American reality television series that premiered on the cable television network Bravo in July 2003. Originally Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, the title was later shortened to broaden the overall scope.[1] The series was created by executive producers David Collins and Michael Williams along with David Metzler through their company, Scout Productions.[2]

The premise relies on the stereotype of gay ("queer") men as experts in matters of fashion, style, personal grooming, interior design, and culture. Each episode features a team collectively known as the "Fab Five" performing a "makeover" (in the parlance of the show, a "make-better"), usually for a heterosexual ("straight") man: revamping wardrobe, redecorating, and offering advice on grooming, lifestyle, and food.[3]

Queer Eye for the Straight Guy quickly became a surprise success, resulting in merchandising, franchising of the concept internationally, and a woman-oriented spin-off, Queer Eye for the Straight Girl. Queer Eye won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Reality Program in 2004. The series' name was abbreviated to Queer Eye at the beginning of its third season to include making over individuals regardless of gender or sexual orientation. Queer Eye ended production during June 2006 and the final episode aired on October 30, 2006.[4] During September 2008, the Fine Living Network briefly aired Queer Eye in syndication.[5]

Netflix announced in January 2017 that it was reviving the series with a new Fab Five in a season of eight episodes.[6] On February 7, 2018, the revival aired its first season to positive reviews.




Here the stars make a great living starring in their series in which they revel in the term "Queer."  They celebrate the use of the term. 
Their business call it what you want. I DON"T CARE.


I remember a time when queer was a small case word not a capital case Queer and had the following meaning: (it was not until the 1980's that the term was co-opted.)


queer
kwir/
adjective
adjective: queer; comparative adjective: queerer; superlative adjective: queerest

 
    strange; odd.
    "she had a queer feeling that they were being watched"
    synonyms:   odd, strange, unusual, funny, peculiar, curious, bizarre, weird, uncanny, freakish, eerie, unnatural; More
    unconventional, unorthodox, unexpected, unfamiliar, abnormal, anomalous, atypical, untypical, out of the ordinary, incongruous, irregular;
    puzzling, perplexing, baffling, unaccountable;
    informalfishy, spooky, bizarro, freaky
    "his diction is archaic and queer"
    antonyms:   normal
        Britishinformaldated
        slightly ill.
   

verbinformal
verb: queer; 3rd person present: queers; past tense: queered; past participle: queered; gerund or present participle: queering

    1.
    spoil or ruin (an agreement, event, or situation).
    "Reg didn't want someone meddling and queering the deal at the last minute"


Terms mean so many things to so many folks that someone will always be offended by term that someone else uses.  We have become a society of victims.  Everyone is a victim and everyone is trying to put someone else down for something.

Martin Luther King once said:

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."

That idea is so true and it goes beyond just the color of their skin.

We have devolved from the time when he said that, unfortunately.  It is sad. 
We need to learn to look beyond what someone looks like or how they act, yes; but at the same time we need to stop throwing in everyone's face the exact things that we want folks to look beyond.  If you stick someones face under water they have trouble breathing.  Maybe folks could learn that they do more harm by sticking people's head under the perverbial water than just letting them breathe.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 07:00:54 PM »
The guy that is on the other forum I mentioned  son and his partner wound up coming in fourth. Didn't get a medal, but only one place out for the first time in the olympics, is quite an accomplishment.. I know I have only been on ice skates twice in my life, so what they were doing looks like it is impossible to do, in the first place. lol

Offline Ox

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2018, 10:20:03 AM »
lol  I agree with that.  I've only tried ice skates once and then I realized they were made for masochists.  Same with snowboards.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2018, 01:33:56 PM »
My senior trip, we, all 27 of us seniors went to Ft Worth  for a week. We all voted to go ice skating one evening. I had only lived in the small town my last 2 years in high school, and didn't realize that only 3 of us had ever even roller skated. lol  Within 20 minutes everyone except for one other person, who had taken a shine to one of our girls left the building and gave us the whole skating rink to ourselves, there were skates flying around at head level half the time it seemed like. lol
I never tried snow boards, or even snow skies, even though I water skied daily at times, and skate boarded quite a bit when I was a kid, I would hate to accidently step on one now. lol

Offline starmac

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2018, 07:11:37 PM »
I heard some of the saddest news I have ever heard today.
The member on the gun forum that had a son place 4th in his class of ice dancing in the olimpics, posted today that his other son committed suicide on the 28'th. I do not know him personally, but can't imagine what he is going through.

Offline furu

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2018, 09:01:59 PM »
Wow
How sad.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline Ox

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Re: olimpics
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2018, 10:45:02 AM »
Geez, what a kick to the teeth.  I couldn't even imagine.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools