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Author Topic: Sawmill version 2.0  (Read 740 times)

Offline joasis

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2018, 05:50:28 AM »


If I could I would love to make the entire mill electric. but for a portable mill that sure would make a long extension cord.



My bandmill is electric, 5 hp. I can run it off of my Miller Bobcat 225 welder, and it works great. I really like the idea of a separate motor/generator set up, because electrics and electro/hydraulic is a pretty neat way to go. Just something to consider. Some welders will put out 20kw as a gen set, and you may be able to get a deal on one. Or an actual generator.  Even 3 phase. A 10 hp 3 phase would be the cat's pajamas.
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2018, 06:19:16 AM »
I do have an old 4.0ho straight 6 out of a jeep I could run a generator off of :) that thought has been in my head for a while. unfortunately just getting a generator head for that and then the cost of the electric motor already puts me at my budget for this build. Would be awesome to build the engine and generator into the trailer in a way it could be disconnected and place 50' away from the sawing area to keep the noise down.

If I could sell my other one for really good money then it may work but still do not want to invest that much into it.

Does being electric make it less forgiving being towed down the road in the rain?

Offline joasis

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2018, 06:30:13 AM »
I don't know about rain, but my ideal build would be a 3 phase, TEFC 10 hp motor, 220v, and a 20kw gen set.

Might be worth looking, a long time back there were companies like Winco that made tractor powered generators. I have seen them sell for scrap in the last few years. A 3 ph motor wills ell for scrap also, because there isn't a lot of demand.
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Offline joasis

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2018, 06:35:11 AM »
I saw this and posted it for Harold, but anyone reading this and thinking a mill build may find this source great: https://www.mcmaster.com/

Jack screws, nuts, all kinds of stuff. $24 for an 8 foot piece of 5/8 acme rod.
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2018, 07:09:07 AM »
Mcmaster is great for some things but I find that power transmission components seem over priced. www.surpluscenter.com is great for alot of things.

a 10 tooth #40 chain sprocket from mcmaster is 14.21 but surpluscenter is 4.45

I have been using amazon and ebay for alot of my things. The linear bearings will be from ebay.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2018, 07:11:05 AM »

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2018, 09:00:29 AM »
Sometimes, acme thread is a hinderance around harder wood sawdust. Sawdust WILL get into the threads and eventually start jamming the nut threads. Wind blown can't be effectively controlled, especially wet sticky sawdust.  My table saw is partly jammed for the blade depth movement.  This is why I chose winch and cable.

 Winch is worm gear so, when it stops turning, it also acts like a brake. They can be found in Harbor Freight ?? for under $50.00. Just keep the gears smeared with old fashioned wheel bearing grease and a simple tin cover.

 I used Surplus Center for lots of things.

 I once used a 5 HP single phase 240V motor on the Peterson swing blade. It cut fairly well, just pulled kinda hard, BUT, with the tight belts, it blew the start winding.  ::)  I agree with Joasis on the farm tractor mount generators. If I lived anywhere near a junk yard, that would be my hardware supply place.  A 3 phase motor will run a 3 phase motor. Motors are generators. That is not a misprint. Ebay might have cheaper priced motors. I bought a 50 HP Leeson off ebay, for my buddy down here, and it was around $650.00 brand new. Much less copper in a 3 phase motor, so, less cost. Junkyard motors, just smell them. Burnt windings stink like forever. Just change the bearings, using MOTOR quality bearings.

 I used 1" acme thread for the clamp and hyd cylinder for the adjustable up/down. Used the clamp for moving logs/cants around on the bunks instead of raw me power.  ;D  Always ran tranny fluid on it to keep the sawdust washed away.

 I'm nearly finished with the gasifier build, that will charge my house and shop batteries and run the new design swing mill, with that POS Honda 20 HP that refuses to run on gasoline, so, I'm a gonna stuff smoke gas down it's throat. cough cough  >:D  :laugh:

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2018, 09:07:26 AM »
yes. the acme rod is proving to be a challenge for me which is why I was thinking ball screw. Ox had a decent setup using bottle brushes wrapped around the rod above and below the bearings. that seemed to work well to keep them clean.

I do keep contemplating the winch idea. the only reason I keep thinking the threaded rod is because I can help offset the cantilever head weight with the screw.

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2018, 03:38:09 PM »
Finding the balance point of the sawhead will be all you need to do. That's where that little bit of slop in the risers will prove handy. That's why I suggested the pulley at the sawhead and the winch above. Also allows for slower speed up/down. After using ours for a while, I got real close to stopping at the exact spot for each cut as I cut down the log or cant.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2018, 04:00:35 PM »
Another option for raising and lowering the saw head is wire cable and a good hydraulic cylinder. Buy a new good quality hyd cylinder with a clevis end, in that end put two cable sheves, I got ones from commercial overhead doors. Mount the cylinder vertical beside a rear leg. Fasten one end of the cable to the top bar run down through the sheves and to each end of the saw head with adjustable eye bolt. When the cylinder moves 1" the cable will move the saw head two. Mine has worked flawlessly for at least 15 years. Its fast and you can feather the spool valve easily to stop at a mark, I used a aluminum yardstick and pointer. Screws, acme nuts, sprockets and chains be dammed. Hydraulic cylinders and cables are good enough for bucket trucks and Arial ladders and plenty good for a band mill. Frank C.

Offline mountainlake

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2018, 04:23:29 PM »

 I think me and Frank are on the same page KEEP IT SIMPLE.  .   Steve

Offline Cutting Edge Saw Svc.

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2018, 08:04:30 AM »


I am designing sawmill V2.0 and want to use linear bearings on everything.




Crusarius,

I'd shy away from the use of linear bearings.  My experience with industrial tooling/automation in a controlled (enclosed) environment, they perform well.

Take that same bearing/shafting and put it out in the ambient environment for material handling (inside w/ "clean" air) they would do "OK"

Take same and put it near ANYTHING that created dust/debris (ass'y line workstation) and they would eventually lock up.  The shafting would be fine, but the bearing cages would absolutely plug tight and eventually fail.  Even with the "wipers", debris still migrated in.  If shafting got even a slight amount of surface rust.... early death.

These weren't cheap quality either.  In a pinch, lesser quality were used and failure rate was reflected in price.

Just my 2 cents after replacing $1,000's upon $1,000's of 'em.


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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2018, 08:24:15 AM »
Thanks for the info richard, I have been wondering about the durability long term. I am very tempted still to put them on my current setup to make raise and lower easier just to see how they will hold up. Its only about $60 for a set so I will not be out much if they do not work.

I appreciate the input.

I thought thats what woodmizer uses on their carriage slide setup?

Offline Cutting Edge Saw Svc.

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2018, 11:44:45 AM »

I thought thats what woodmizer uses on their carriage slide setup?



Nope.  Hardened rail (roundstock) with cam followers.  Could be mimic'd pretty easy.  Try to find one you can go-n-see.

Depending on what your rendition would end up being like, substitutions for easier to source components could/would simplify building it. 


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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2018, 01:24:03 PM »
cam followers are all over ebay. they are definitely more than bearings though. Now that I know what they are I am contemplating adding them to my existing mill to make up and down easier. and to make the paint on the mast last longer :)

Really regret using hot rolled for the rail. never again.

I was looking at the design for the cam followers on the woodmizer and started wondering if round stock is the right answer or is flat bar better.

I could always just use the 2x6 main rail instead of adding anything special. The only thing that I am concerned about with that is how smooth / flat is the actual 2x6

Offline Cutting Edge Saw Svc.

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2018, 07:41:03 PM »


Really regret using hot rolled for the rail. never again.


I could always just use the 2x6 main rail instead of adding anything special. The only thing that I am concerned about with that is how smooth / flat is the actual 2x6




If I'm buying steel, I almost always specify cold rolled.  Yeah, cost a little more, but the dimensional accuracy and overall quality far outweighs any savings of hot roll.

IMHO, use a flat bar "track" over the 2x6 tube.  Gives you a sacrificial bearing surface that can be replaced if need be.  Just be careful how/where/sequence you weld it on.  Takes a bit of pre-planning and potentially fabbing an adjustable "stiff back" to jig in conjunction with the 2x6 tube to keep it straight...ish  Do it right, minimal torch work needed to straighten minor areas it might've moved.   8)  Anything else and you've got a twisted banana in varying ranges of severity.   ???  :o  >:(  :'(

Also depends on how much existing structure is already attached to the beam.

Best of luck !   ;D

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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Sawmill version 2.0
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2018, 06:19:51 AM »
Thanks richard. my current mill bed is 24' long with 2x6x.188 main rails and the same for the bunks. the bunks were welded 2" higher than the rails. I had no deformation after full welding everything. Its all about proper application of heat in the proper areas. Never want to concentrate all your heat in one place for to long. plus proper support on the rails is key.

It is pretty fun to show welding newbees what heat will do to a piece of 3/8" flat plate. Surprising how much it will bow from a 1" stitch in the middle of the plate.