How would I build my own trailer

[Steve G.]

Hey guys,

How would it be possible to build my own trailer? I am thinking of building a car/utility trailer so we can haul supplys and a also a kubota tractor from time to time weighing 7000lb. I would like to do it for under $1000. I need to know anything you know about building trailers, I have never built one before. Also what kind of welder should I get, from the research I've done I came to the conclusion that I would need a mig welder (what kind would be best?); either I'll rent one from the big orange or buy one for around $500. I have looked at plans online but haven't bought any yet. All suggestions and advice are helpful. Thanks in advance!

Steve

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Well, Steve G, I would first shop around to see what is out there for already available trailers.  You might well be suprised at what you could and will find for around the dollars you are talking about. 

[Kirk Allen]

If your set on building, this is probably the best and least expensive source for parts. I used them for my axlles, tires, and lights.

http://www.etrailerpart.com/

[Steve G.]

One of the reasons were thinking of building a trailer is so we can learn how to weld. I've been keeping an eye out for trailers on craigslist and the trailers that are in good condition are either around $2000 or more.

[JP Sinclair]

Steve - I build my own, I'll get some pics and post them.  IT works slick, all steel construction and very rugged. 

[Steve G.]

Thanks JP, i'll be waitin' for them In the meantime, what welders do you guys use and wich one would you sugggest I get?

And also, where do you get the steel?

[Kirk Allen]

As far as welders go, Miller has always been a top of the line welder and I am sure there are others but that is the one I am most familiar with. 

We have a couple places within 40 miles to buy steel from.  You should be able to find a supplier fairly easy I would think. 

[Steve G.]

Yeah I think we have plenty of people to buy steel from - I did a google search and we have over 10 within a few miles radius

I guess my question is, what kind of welder should I get. And what should the specs be.
About the steel, my question is, what kind do you use? I-beams? Boxed steel? etc.

Thanks alot guys

Steve

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Steve, all I have ever used is a Lincoln buz box for welding.  The main rod I use is 6011 rod.  It seems to be a good all purpose rod for my needs.

As to the design of steel, well I have used both tubing and channel for building trailers.

Again, I have also found that I can walk over the dollars to save the pennies.  I usually watch and can mort often than not, find the type of trailers I am looking for, much cheeper that spending lots of time, building, gathering materials and searching out designs.   Once I get the trailer, I can always make modifications, if need be, to mee what I want the trailer to do.

[Steve G.]

We've been looking on craigslist and found a car trailer for $600 - we might go look at it. If we can't seem to find one we might build one. However I am still interested in building a trailer. I don't know what's with me but I love building things. Plus once we get a welder - we could probably make a custom bumper for the front of our ford ranger since I smashed it off while I was 4x4ing

If my dad does decide to build a trailer or weld anything I have to have all the facts about everything down - or nothings going forward.

I don't really have a clear understanding of the different welders; like tig, arc, and mig. I thought I wanted a mig welder but then I saw this on northern tool. What would be wrong with welding with this?
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200304603_200304603

The guy that reviewed this welder said he built his atv trailer with it!

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

With my buzz box I can weld down to ten gage material and up to extra thick, like three or four inch materials.

[Steve G.]

Yikes!!! 3 or 4 inches - you ust of spent a fortune on that thing. Is it a mig, tig or arc?

Would there be anything wrong with the one I posted? I'm a beginner, I'm only 15 years old - it's not like i'm starting a business or anything with welding all I need is a little welder that will get the job done for this trailer and a few little other things.

[Stevem]

Things to consider on getting a welder is what your going to weld, where you're going to weld at, how thick your going to be welding and how much your going to be welding at one time.

Time welding is based on duty cycle,  or how long you're welding verses how long the the machine is on.  In a production situation you need a 100% duty cycle or else you melt the transformer down.  It just can't get rid of the heat fast enough.  I wouldn't think you'd need that.

Amperage is needed to get penetration of the metal and more amperage means the ability to weld thicker material.  200 or so amps will weld most common metals.  I've have a small MIG welder that is hard pressed to weld 1/4" material so it's not something I'd want to use to build a trailer, it's only rated at 125 amps at 20% duty cycle.  One minute welding 4 minute rest.  But heavy amperage welders some times need a dedicated electrical circuit so you don't blow the circuit breakers or over heat the wires in the wall.

My MIG welder was bought so I could weld sheet metal on auto bodies.  One of the limits is being able to weld outside.  If it's windy forget it,  The wind blows away the shielding gas and I get poor if any welds.  But I don't have to deal with slag chipping and can see what I've done as soon as I raise my hood.  There are commercial MIG welders that don't have that problem but they use more gas.

AC (buzz box) welders are good for just about anything but have some failings.
They don't really do well in overhead welding,  DC is better for that.  There is a limited number of rods they can use.  They don't do well on sheet metal, tend to blow holes in the metal. 

Small diameter rods are used for thin material and precise work, larger rods need more amperage but lay down thicker beads with deeper penetration on thicker material. 

Having said all that, the welder you provided a link to looks good for learning with and good all round capability.  And Hobart is a good name brand.  A good source of info would be a local welding shop or two to get more information.

The two most common welding rods used by us none professionals are 6011 and 7018.  6011 (60,00 lbs steel) is sometimes called "farmers rod" as it will burn through layers of dirt and rust and provide a pretty good weld.  The 7018 (70,000 lbs steel) rod is more for cleaner metals and strong welds, sometimes called production rod or low hydrogen rod.  It works better with a DC welder, but it works with an AC one, just not as good.  It's really good overhead welding with a DC welder.   I'd never use 6011 to build a trailer but I would use it to fix one. 

Pretty much you get what you pay for in welders. Higher duty cycle is better but cost more and may not be needed, higher amperage is better but cost more and may not be needed, AC-DC is better but cost more and may not be needed

What ever you decide just don't short yourself on the welding hood, permanent eye damage can result from poor eye protection.  Better to have a $100 mask and a $30 welder that the other way around.

Stevem

   



   

[Steve G.]

Thanks so much steve, so you would suggest I use 7018 rods to build a trailer?

And also, is the welder I posted good enough to weld a trailer?

Thanks again!

Steve

[Steve G.]

  Hobart Welding Sticks/Rods 10-Lb. Pk. — 5/32in. Dia., Model# 7018
Only $17.99
 
In Stock
Ship Wt. 10.2 lbs.
 
Fits your welding task. U.S.A.


Light penetrating for high deposition rates and faster travel speeds
5/32in. dia.
10-lb. pack
U.S.A.

 
 
Would this size be good to weld a trailer? How many pounds do you think it would take to weld a trailer?

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

I am not an expert at this welding sruff, but I would recommend the 6011 as it penetrates better.  99 percent of what I use 6011 on has not broken.

[Stevem]

I stand corrected on the 6011.  Live and learn,  I like to use 7018 because the welds look better and it's sometimes refered to as a drag rod because you can stay very close to the metal and not worry too much about arc length.  But I'm self taught.
 
This from the web:
Both 6010 & 6011 are Fast Freeze Rods, deep penetrating.

They both have a light flux which allows you to see the molten puddle clearly.

The weld is not as attractive, and is usually used as a first pass rod, which is then covered by another rod, such as 7018. 

6011 is the easiest rod to use because of the stabilizers in the rod.

Arc Gap (the height of the tip of the rod off of the metal) is extremely important.  Do not use a small Arc Gap.  The small Arc Gap will not give the metal enough time to heat up.

7018

Shallower penetrating than 6010 or 6011

This is a low hydrogen rod with iron powder in the flux which prevents the weld from cracking. 

One of the highest quality welding rod, and can handle higher stress.

The metal must be clean (no rust, dirt, oil, etc. on metal).

Iron powder higher metal deposit rate (used as a filler rod)

Has a heavier slag which allows the molten metal to solidify faster while slag is still molten.

The 7018 electrode is more sensitive to Arc Gap.  Use a constant short arc gap with 7018.

Requires a higher amperage setting than 6011.

http://www.clovisusd.k12.ca.us/agcenter/arc_welding.htm

Stevem

[Steve G.]

http://www.trailerpart.com/52kdroptraileraxle.htm

I think I'm going to use 2 of those axles, would it be ok to get one with brakes and 1 without brakes?

I'm getting the 5,200lb axles because we need to haul 7500lb so we would just miss the rating with 2 3500lb axles.

We're thinking of building an 18ft car trailer - what kind of steel would I need? Boxed? how thick? what size? I need to go to the steel guy today or soon so if ya'll could help me out figure what size steel to use that would mighty helpful
Thanks again,

Steve

[Steve G.]

And also, on the axle I posted, how do I know what wheel/size to put on it?

Thanks,

Steve

[adk patroller]

Steve G,

You may want to check with NY DOT.  With two 5000#+ axles you will be required to have a CDL(Commercial Drivers License) to operate the trailer legally in NY State.

The max GVWR of a trailer without a CDL is 10,000#.  I have been researching this with the local NYSP DOT detail officers in considering trucking our own logs to the veneer buyers.

If you hook a 10,001# or heavier trailer to a 3/4 or one ton pickup with a GVWR of 16,000 # or more you are required to have a CDL A which is a tractor trailer endorsement.

[Steve G.]

Is it possible to combine a 3500lb axle with a 5200lb axle for a total combine of 8700lb's?

[Kirk Allen]

Sounds good but when it comes to weight distribution each axle is carrying half the load so as you described, a total weight of 8700 lbs means one of those poor axles is carrying 4350, which is 850lb over its limit.

Now, with that in mind, I have two 7500lb axles under my trailer, thus an assumed 15000 lb load.  I have tipped the scales at 28,000 with it. Key being, that was slow driving and only a few miles from home. I would never want to take that out on a state road.  I think the axles can take a lot more than they give them credit but the law doesnt see it that way.

[Steve G.]

So do you think that if I need to haul 7500# I can use 2 3500# axles and still be far away from breaking the axles? What size and kind of steel would ya'll suggest for building an 18ft car trailer? I need to get my info together so I can get a price list. Thanks again guys.

Steve

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

I would strongly suggest that you consider torsion axels for your trailer. 

[Steve G.]

I was wondering about that frank, thanks.

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Fsor a few dollars more, I would get them that are at a rating of !0,000 lbs. each.   Yes, it is as bit overkill but you are prepared for whatever appears to be hauled and not afoul of the weights and measures folks.

[Kirk Allen]

Another thing you can do is put the oversize axles like Frank suggested but just because you have 10K axles doesnt mean you have to have it registered for that weight load, or at least thats how it is in Illinois.   Register it for the $7500 you need but rest assured it can haul more when you need it.  Key being when that time comes you need to keep a sharp eye for Mr. Smokey Bear 

[Steve G.]

Fsor a few dollars more, I would get them that are at a rating of !0,000 lbs. each.   Yes, it is as bit overkill but you are prepared for whatever appears to be hauled and not afoul of the weights and measures folks.

 I think that would be a waist of money since we don't have a truck that can haul alot and the guy we'll be building it for (our close freind who will use it to haul his tractor to our land so we can use it ) to haul the tractor around will never put anything that heavy on it. Plus it's really expensive, I'm trying to do this for under $1000 - but It might not happen. If what kea says is true, then I'll get 2 5200# axles and register the trailer for 9500#.
Now can someone please tell me what size steel I should use an this trailer - I need to get prices. Is it 2x5" boxed steel or 3x8" boxed steel or 2X4 channel steel? I just need to get some ballpark figures;D Thanks

[Kirk Allen]

I suspect 2x5 box would be more than sufficent. 

[Steve G.]

Thanks, I think I am going to order these plans tonight - I've read lot's of great reviews about the.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200308239_200308239

[Steve G.]

I ordered the plans - now I guess I'll just wait until they get here. If ya'll have anymore advise keep it coming!

[mike p]

i agree with frank you can buy a used trailer from someone needing $ a hole lot less than steel prices
dont get in a hurry. go to farm sales, we have a yearly sale here probbly bigest in state. they allways sell trailers cheap

[Steve G.]

I havn't priced steel out yet - cuz I don't know what size to get - so I don't know how expensive it will be. I would like to get a used trailer for $1000 - anyone have any idea where I could get it? If I don't build this car trailer - then maybe I could learn how to weld on a smaller utility trailer.

[Buzz Sawyer]

 I think that would be a waist of money since we don't have a truck that can haul alot and the guy we'll be building it for (our close freind who will use it to haul his tractor to our land so we can use it ) to haul the tractor around will never put anything that heavy on it. Plus it's really expensive, I'm trying to do this for under $1000 - but It might not happen. If what kea says is true, then I'll get 2 5200# axles and register the trailer for 9500#.
Now can someone please tell me what size steel I should use an this trailer - I need to get prices. Is it 2x5" boxed steel or 3x8" boxed steel or 2X4 channel steel? I just need to get some ballpark figures;D Thanks

Steve....I dont think you are that different from me....and I can ALWAYS find something a little heavier to haul than last time....in other words build tough and your trailer will last long and haul your medium sized loads eassily
build a little heavier than you think you need and you wont regret it....
on welders...I bought a lincoln 200 amp buzz box when I was your age and am still using it after many trailer projects plus many dozens of other things a harbor freight welder is not a way to go the lincoln is much cheaper and stronger

[Steve G.]

10,000 # is already more than I need - so I guess I'll stick with my plan for 2 #5,200 axles.

As for welders, I'm still a little confused - If I'm correct I need a 200+amp arc welder that uses rods not rolls of steel. Does it have to have some kinda of gas can on it?

Thanks

[Kirk Allen]

Arc welders dont need the gas bottle but your wire feed does.  Wire feed welders do a bang up job but you have to have the argon tank. 

[mike p]

once you use a MIG wire feed with co2 or co2/airgon mix you never go back to stick

[Steve G.]

So what do ya'll think of the lincon 225a arc welder?

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

I have two of them and use them both at two different sites on the Tree Farm.  They have done everthing I have ever asked.

[Steve G.]

I'm going to get one of these - what is the benefit of the $389 welder with AC/DC over the $269 welder with only AC. What are the benefits of having AC and DC over just AC and is it worth the extra $120?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100041326
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100053881

Thanks guys,

Steve

[Kirk Allen]

Definatly get the DC option.  I do most of my welding in the DC mode and as a novice stick welder I have far more success with the DC than the AC. 

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

One of the thing you might well consider doing, is locate a large roller unit across the backend of the trailer for pulling on logs.

[Steve G.]

What is the difference though? Why is DC better than AC? I hear that DC is better in windy conditions - is that true? I don't think I could weld the trailer in DC anyway because it only does up to 125amps - from what I understand I'll need over 200amps to do a trailer. I understand tough getting DC to use for other smaller projects.

Also, will I need 120v or 220v electric for this welder?

[mike p]

I WOOD GO WITH A MIG
IF YOUR TALKING BUSS BOX GET A 220
DC SEEMS TO JUST WELD EASYER THAN AC. WHEN I TOUGHT WELDING CLASS THE DC WAS EASYER & MIG IS THE EASYEST OF ALL
LOOK IN THE FARM MACHENERY ADDS OURS HAS 2 TRAILERS 4SALE CHEAP

[mike p]

DC current flows in one direction
AC current flows back & forth

[Steve G.]

Well I got the plans today and looked at them - I'll have to go to our steel dealer and get some prices on steel now and see if it's worth it to build a trailer or just to get a used one (which i'm having trouble finding).

The other day the guy that sold us our stihl 280 and a little echo saw gave me a welder so I could learn how to weld! I don't know what size it is or even what kind but i'll know when we pick it up next week

Steve

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

You know, Steve, you masey get your trailer built, yet.

[Steve G.]

You know, Steve, you masey get your trailer built, yet.

A fail to realize what "masey" means

[adk patroller]

Steve,

Check this one out on e-bay!  It is in Coxsackie which is south of Albany.

Item # 280222094304

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280222094304&rd=1

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Wopw!  What a deal.  If that was even somewhat near me, I would jump on that like a Hawk on a mouse.  You could barely get the axels and wheels, new, for that amount, at the time I saw the bidding of $1,100.

[Steve G.]

That's a very nice trailer guys - I don't think it will sell for less than 2k though - what think ya'll's?

[Kirk Allen]

I suspect it will go for around $2800.

I would urge caustion since there appears to be a WHOLE LOT of fresh paint on this possible very old and tired trailer. 

[Steve G.]

I was thinking at least $2000 or more! It only has a 75" length between the wheels I need 80" atleast.

[Steve G.]

Ok guys, just to give you an update we bought a 6x16 trailer with a #12,000 capacity and heavy duty ramps - it's really nice! It needs some work though - I have brand new fenders that the guy gave us to go on it - we just have to weld them on. The guy we bought our stihl 280 from gave me a lincoln 225 AC welder that i'll be using to weld the fenders on with. However the trailer is 6'4" wide between the fenders and the kubota L3750 were using is 6'5" wide So I'm going to put some angle iron or 1x2" box steel between the fenders and the body so I can extend each side one inch. The guy, a well seasoned welder, told me to use 7014 stick for it. Does anyone have any advice for me before I do this on friday? Thanks a mil

Steve

[joasis]

I would use 6011 with an AC welder, or get 7018AC rod if you are comfortable with welding. Watch the tire clearance when you move the fenders out.

[Steve G.]

Another update guys, I welded 1x2" box steel on the outside of the trailer to build the fenders out, then I put the fenders on those. I tell you man, welding is hard when your doing it vertically - the only place i got close to a nice beed was on the top. I used 7014 3/32 for half of the trailer and 7018 3/32 & 1/8 for the other half. Home depot apparently doesn't stock 7014 rod
I only blew a few holes through the fender while welding it to the box steel - then i tried to weld an angle iron from under the fender to the side of the trailer and it didn't weld together I guess welding upside down isn't too easy. I'm gonna' go back up and finish welding some angle iron from the side of the trailer to the fender for extra support and also weld a bucket lift for the tractor bucket to go on. Any suggestion on how to make a place to rest the bucket of the tractor on? Thanks,

Steve

[Kirk Allen]

I have the best results with 6011 rods.  Steve if you could go through a Buzzsawyer crash course in welding it would be worth its weight in welding rod

Don was able to show me how to weld both vertically and upside down.  Hard but it can be done!

[Steve G.]

I thought 6011 was for alot of dirt and grime and didn't end up having as strong a weld as 7018 or 7014? And, what is his crash course - where do I get???
Thanks,

Steve

[Buzz Sawyer]

Crash course is available....for adonation? a fee?  an auction for the full course?....nope....how about a firm handshake and supper

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

You might get well more than that when you arrive here, Buzz.

[Buzz Sawyer]

I did Frank ..........a sylish new HAT!!!!

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Are you going to model the hat for all to see?

[Buzz Sawyer]

YEP..........I havent been seen out in public without it since june.....

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Careful they will be trying to impound you for such display.  You know, that means there are two of us around.  It is a good thing you are in the Eastern part of this country.

[Kirk Allen]

Wait till I get my liner for mine 

[Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"]

Then what?  We get pictures.

[Steve G.]

Just an update guys, the back left fender weld popped off after I drove it over a rock with the tractor ON it. I welded it back quickly but it popped off again after some driving. I realized I didn't have enough current running through the welder (only 75a) and there was only one contact point as opposed to the original 3. I'll go back on monday with some angle iron and weld it strong.

[Kirk Allen]

PICTURES 

[Steve G.]

I didn't take pics of the damaged trailer... I'll post some after I fix it.

[Steve G.]

Here's a pic of me welding on the fenders the first time.

[Kirk Allen]

Way to go Steve.  I cant tell you how great it is to see you wearing all the appropriate safety garb.  My hats off to you! 

[Steve G.]

Thanks, I got that set of leather apron and gloves for $20 at harborfreight. The helmet is an automatic I got from tractor supply.

[Buzz Sawyer]

Kirk likes it because hes seen me weld in shorts and a t shirt