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Author Topic: Starting a search, Ideas... UPDATE!!  (Read 20472 times)

Offline A.O.

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Starting a search, Ideas... UPDATE!!
« on: April 02, 2019, 02:39:31 PM »
Ok, my Stihl 260 that I've had for years has been acting up so I finally took it to a Stihl dealer, they told me that the ethanol killed it! Said it needs carb, lines, plug, filter etc, they want $240 to fix it so I'm thinking a new saw might be in my future.
I am a heavy duty homeowner/farm ranch guy not a commercial cutter. I have a little Echo top handle for small stuff, and an MS362 for larger stuff, and at 63 I don't want any bigger. I'm looking for (to me) a mid sized saw to replace the 260. Maybe n 18 or 20 inch bar. I'll cut maybe a dozen or two trees a year to feed the sawmill and the woodstove.
I've not bought or even looked at chainsaws out on the market for at least 5 years so I'm not sure what is out there or Gov regs concerning them so I'm looking for ideas and advice.

Have done Stihls or years, but I keep hearing the Husqvarna's are a decent saw and I also like my Echo. So I'm all ears for a while here. Is a pro saw worth the expense for the small amount I'm cutting? Oh, and I'd like to keep it between $300 & $400.

Whatcha guys think?  ;D
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 06:17:00 AM by A.O. »

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2019, 03:11:43 PM »
This is my personal opinion and I know it will ruffle some feathers but here goes.

Find a new mechanic. The saw is new enough it was designed to run ethanol fuel. that is not what killed it. The mechanic obviously does not know what he is talking about so he blames the fuel.

I have always run ethanol in everything I own. I have never had any failures of any kind. and the fuel sits in them more than I like to admit.

Did he say whether your cylinders were scored? or what the final failure mode actually was? Or did he just say it was bad fuel?

Please lets not get into the lifelong ethanol debate. its been hashed out an d beat to death way to damn many times all over the internet. This is just my personal opinion take it for what it is.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2019, 03:24:16 PM »
This is my personal opinion and I know it will ruffle some feathers but here goes.

Find a new mechanic. The saw is new enough it was designed to run ethanol fuel. that is not what killed it. The mechanic obviously does not know what he is talking about so he blames the fuel.

I have always run ethanol in everything I own. I have never had any failures of any kind. and the fuel sits in them more than I like to admit.

Did he say whether your cylinders were scored? or what the final failure mode actually was? Or did he just say it was bad fuel?

Please lets not get into the lifelong ethanol debate. its been hashed out an d beat to death way to damn many times all over the internet. This is just my personal opinion take it for what it is.

A second opinion might just be a good idea. This is one of the better Stihl dealers in the area, but who knows right. Apparently they have some sort of computer testing that will tell exactly whats wrong with it but...

He said nothing about cyl scoring, just basically the fuel system.

The saw just got to where I couldn't keep it running..


Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2019, 06:54:26 PM »
AO, theirs a guy on YouTube  "Steve's small engine saloon" he goes through everything to do with saws. Get a carb kit and lines their cheap and watch Steve you can do it all yourself and have the satisfaction and a wad of cash in your pocket. Good older saw are worth fixing their not burdened with the new EPA crap. Frank C.

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2019, 08:46:58 PM »
It is true and  factual that ethanol will gum up the carb if old mix is left around very long. (definition of long is the question that people argue about) 
Just don't leave it for more than a month (my saw shop says 2 weeks).  Mix up no more than 1 gallon at a time.
The lines will not be effected by the ethanol as that problem has been taken care of years ago.
Yes,  I am anti ethanol in my saws but if you go through the mix fast enough my shop says that there is nothing wrong with it.  (see above)
Fuel mix age is the enemy. 
The old style lines are eaten by ethanol but a 260 should not have that problem.  Even if it did just replace them. Very easy.

Now the carb. 
If you left old mix sit in the saw for a while or got bad fuel the carb could be gummed up.
Either rebuild it or buy a new carb,  They are not that expensive.  Cheaper than a new saw and not hard to do yourself.

If it will run and then keeps shutting down when warm look at the low speed mixture adjustment.
Does it start and run and then die when warm?

If you give up on the saw, get another MS 26X (I think the 262 is the newest model. 
I was against the new computer saws until I had to replace my climbing saw last July.  I love the little sucker. (201T)
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 06:28:05 AM »
I bought a 261cm last year. I have run plenty of saws being in the fire service and by far my absolute favorite has been the 261 cm. best torque saw I have ever run. Starts great as long as you do not run it out of fuel.

I do not understand why everyone is so afraid of the M-tronic. The technology has been proven after years in cars. It was just downsized to fit in the saw.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 10:58:29 AM »
Ok, well after listening to you guys I think I'll go collect my saw, tear it down and see what I can come up with.

I have see a couple videos of Steve's small engine saloon, I go look some more

Anyplace you guys recommend for parts? I know they don't sell the saws on line, I'll have to see about parts.

Crusarius, what did that 261 cost?


Offline Crusarius

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2019, 11:27:24 AM »
From what I understand the aftermarket stuff is good.

I think I am about $600 into the 261? I don't remember but it was not cheap. still worth every penny. can't believe how it runs.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2019, 12:27:47 PM »
From what I understand the aftermarket stuff is good.

I think I am about $600 into the 261? I don't remember but it was not cheap. still worth every penny. can't believe how it runs.

Thanks..

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 12:49:02 PM »
Wow I was thinking more like 45-60 for a carb replacement.  That price is almost scary cheap. 
On the flip side for that price you can't go wrong unless it implodes and goes into the cylinder and damages it.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2019, 02:45:16 PM »
Wow I was thinking more like 45-60 for a carb replacement.  That price is almost scary cheap. 
On the flip side for that price you can't go wrong unless it implodes and goes into the cylinder and damages it.

Yeah, scary cheap was my thought also, heck Stihl wants $35 just for the air cleaner

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2019, 07:35:41 PM »
I thought the carb from stihl was only $35. but that may have been a long time ago.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2019, 10:02:12 PM »
I thought the carb from stihl was only $35. but that may have been a long time ago.

Picked up the saw today, they want $103 for a csrb

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2019, 02:01:16 AM »
Still cheaper than the 240 they said first.  That is a lot of labor for a carb swap.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2019, 08:33:58 AM »
Still cheaper than the 240 they said first.  That is a lot of labor for a carb swap.

$56 is labor, the rest parts..

I got the saw back in pieces, I hope I can figure out how to put it together.. :-[

Offline Ox

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2019, 08:40:14 AM »
They did that on purpose to try to extort you into paying them for work.

The aftermarket cheap chinese parts are just fine.  I've run a lot of those $15 or $20 carbs and have had no issues whatsoever and they run perfect.

https://www.huztl.net/ST-Chainsaw-Parts-c2871.html  This place has unbelievable prices for just about anything anybody would want to do with a chainsaw. 
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools


Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2019, 09:05:44 AM »
They did that on purpose to try to extort you into paying them for work.

The aftermarket cheap chinese parts are just fine.  I've run a lot of those $15 or $20 carbs and have had no issues whatsoever and they run perfect.

https://www.huztl.net/ST-Chainsaw-Parts-c2871.html  This place has unbelievable prices for just about anything anybody would want to do with a chainsaw.

Probably going to try one, got to figure out which one is the correct replacement, they all say for an MS260, AND they all are of different configurations...

Offline Ox

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2019, 03:30:43 PM »
That $2,000 chainsaw carb must have been popular - says it's currently out of stock.
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 09:23:08 AM »
So I could build you a house, but small engines are not my forte!
As I said I got this thing back in pieces so I'm trying to find a video or other info on how to put it all back together. I'll order one of those little aftermarket kits that covers all this stuff and see how I do with it.. I should know this stuff anyway and I hope I can learn this old dog a new trick! wish me luck! I'm pretty mechanically inclined so I'm not too worried.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 10:23:32 AM by A.O. »

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2019, 11:47:47 AM »
Ok, so my saws carb just has 2 screws, "L" and "LA" ,so there is no way to adjust the max engine speed. There is another style carb that has the "LA" screw, AND a "H"&"L" screw that is more adjustable, my saw does have the provisions in the case to use either kind. Is there any real good need for more adjustments or am I just asking for trouble changing?

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2019, 11:48:40 AM »
You can find places to  download a digital manual. 

I have the IPL and service manuals for all my Stihls.  I have it for the 026 the older version of the 260 but not the 260.  Over on Arboristsite There is a individual named:backhoelover who might be able to help. 

Link to his profile
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/members/backhoelover.96329/

I can certainly send you a digital copy for the 026 but I would suggest you try to get the 260 manual first.  It will be a great help.  Just how far into pieces did this shop tear it down?  Sounds as if they are just being vindictive.  I would look for a different shop. 

A good technician is worth his weight in gold.  I don't know when the last time I got charged for any labor on my Stihls.  If I have an issue that I can't resolve I go into "Mike" and he say lets go back to the bench and I will show what you have to do to fix that.  They order anything I need if they don't have the parts in stock

Yes I do throw my business to them and I could get some stuff a little cheaper elsewhere but I want to support this dealer and I NEVER get ripped off by them.  When I replaced my climbing saw last summer I could have saved 25 bucks on an about $750 purchase (with tax) if I bought it down the road but they threw in two spare chains which were more than the price difference.  There was an issue with the very tiny, tiny fuel solenoids (computer saw) and when I went in we went into the back and replaced them on the spot.  I did not have to drop it off and come back later.  To me great service is nearly impossible to put a price on.

If you are not a member over on Arboristsite or can't get it to work let me know and I can try to get the manuals for you.  If they have it in too small a group of parts then you might be better off waiting for the manuals instead of breaking something.  Either way it will be a good experience.

EDIT
Found the direct link for the beg for manuals thread.  see below

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/beg-for-manuals.220957/
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 12:08:28 PM by furu »
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2019, 12:00:03 PM »
Ok, so my saws carb just has 2 screws, "L" and "LA" ,so there is no way to adjust the max engine speed. There is another style carb that has the "LA" screw, AND a "H"&"L" screw that is more adjustable, my saw does have the provisions in the case to use either kind. Is there any real good need for more adjustments or am I just asking for trouble changing?

Technically you don't adjust the max engine speed with the H screw.  The L and the H screw adjust the idle and WOT mixture.  The LA adjusts the low idle and has to be done after the L screw is adjusted.  Low (idle mixture) can have more impact on starting and continuing to run than I can describe.  The H screw adjusts the WOT mixture which does directly effect max RPM.  Get it too lean the RPM goes WAY too high and you burn the cylinder/blow up the saw.  Too lean you lose power and bad exhaust and etc.  Some folks are great on tuning by ear for WOT others use a tachometer.  My ear almost always is too rich (probably because I am afraid to get it too lean) thus I use a tachometer.
"Mike" can set it within 100 RPM at 13000 RPM by ear.  Amazes me everytime.

As far as not having a H screw that is a new one.  Now was that the original carb or the one that you are looking at getting?

Went back and reread your post.  The saw has the "H" hole but not the adjustment on the carb?  Are you the original owner? Has the carb been replaced before?
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2019, 12:30:35 PM »
Technically you don't adjust the max engine speed with the H screw.  The L and the H screw adjust the idle and WOT mixture.  The LA adjusts the low idle and has to be done after the L screw is adjusted.  Low (idle mixture) can have more impact on starting and continuing to run than I can describe.  The H screw adjusts the WOT mixture which does directly effect max RPM.  Get it too lean the RPM goes WAY too high and you burn the cylinder/blow up the saw.  Too lean you lose power and bad exhaust and etc.  Some folks are great on tuning by ear for WOT others use a tachometer.  My ear almost always is too rich (probably because I am afraid to get it too lean) thus I use a tachometer.
"Mike" can set it within 100 RPM at 13000 RPM by ear.  Amazes me everytime.

As far as not having a H screw that is a new one.  Now was that the original carb or the one that you are looking at getting?

Went back and reread your post.  The saw has the "H" hole but not the adjustment on the carb?  Are you the original owner? Has the carb been replaced before?

First to your beg for a manual link. I am a member over there and just did my begging, thanks!

I am the original owner of this saw and this is the original carb. And I am finding that there is NOT a single screw replacement carb as I thought, not that I have found yet anyway.

Here is a link to my owners manual and on page 45-46 it shows the two different carb arrangements

https://www.stihlusa.com/webcontent/cmsfilelibrary/instructionmanuals/ms260_manual.pdf

Maybe I missed it but who is Mike you refer to, the mechanic at your shop?

And I just found a video instruction on rebuilding my carb, might order a kit and try it.

EDIT TO ADD: And WOW, that guy is quick, I already have the manuals...

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2019, 12:48:52 PM »
Seems they have 2 carb styles for sale, both have 2 screws, on has a limiter on the H screw, probably so as to not get it too lean.

with limiter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-026-PRO-MS260-carburetor-replaces-WT-403B-1121-120-0610/140962891344?hash=item20d20b0650&enc=AQADAAAC0FjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduV2YahASFvnfGX8O4uunhWCTEVyfiq5ojjoKlAYIvyfHfBQaHFZ3Pktocy8OdGSKuRtG5uhKjlqZWNgVrndtaKlh%2BmLDVw84d6r7iYwtNJK%2FbB63pliAXolWmKaMsDLW9esHIPI3561bzTfGgKge3pBBhR4WtleWbPH4WaNoTOi7KUcB%2FzblMP2TMnlLSEaolw%2FTolY2zDu77c5CHVgajWHnOWa9IHUGvUX1e3mZ%2FG9pBg6Yx4pCyx9I90rQlewgHuM6TmWYQ3nqhIq1GhRPFPjPPJAWl0g1ZUVC5eR8MMpMWQD5r01YQeIFoBi6TQzZi2ujsv2LIwKovlk3ckt29ng7DhUYc1CYvpg7374dcX5s4qXP%2BgzOmYGk1yDWOmOrm3TvuCqTvXtvUa85%2B%2BBel3n9ILwXaTwxnZi3ZMhebrTPBFBsGyacOH7o5nK2Bcf67khT8KQ%2FehboADz57muA1q6Nl6Qdoprfyy2bNDVhT9yV26oQKlfEIUTABIvxpbuFDljTZU0Iyc9%2FPotVrQXzdOfRwuC7C0WlEEj7d9kte7OuGLj0I8CNkls8bf5YBB0yEWdZ6z5ViXC9lMdIHPo7rQTFwZCUjOeiEKfjMd5CzCTat31wf3iYMNHh3TWkMoTwndJiFr%2Fw4lL7M50YHUvJEYewXmjnODts7OFa0HU1ge8lFTrfH9hJKK1Ynk9M4hB6u2sM6LIi702Kj8ImZcR2V%2BqG2f%2Fo99ZQC0pP5YmjOo%2FFT7zFPRjwznyRqayAv4lXx1tA5vMKdtkXKD7s3s4O34w3oeCxAQAcOdJ1lJPF2eVZUKyqJ3IpYAppDWmpixOb%2FShodDYNyWPtro8JrbrbwTj4V9Bu1CZqoqZCqQDG5v9vyqqJkZzt4RLUTHV38O%2FCnZ%2B5%2BnnzuJopdL4EJM51v8rg%3D%3D&checksum=14096289134492dacba4bd1140cd92fd21fc5607e308

without

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor-For-Stihl-024-026-MS240-MS260-Gas-Chainsaw-Walbro-WT-403B-11211200610/172167211096?hash=item2815f72858&enc=AQADAAAC8FjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduV9%2BFKKgo6OITNSS9giknp06mHLlZrwAOQVhMbLqDKzjGTgC%2BsxLWeANAJeWtmqmMZMvF2Cqol%2BYeCuV5YlA%2FOfImRNYyl0xh9AMmEYFCXEmt9anHfsl0%2BVHXdz6%2BLMwNGbxZdzbXTstP0ei%2FZMEYiSVagNLde5KoP54kMctG5%2FRu4ro8OjyODgA9AhMaU2iI8uoFda6MJPnU3JHSm%2FQSrNQIrhamPIATqA8hrigD2D3%2Bl%2FUDyhfSxU7r%2BAl16Aef6URqaL1xGuIJbJY%2F%2B3ZPoN0RHYHRGedYN5MtcuekDz0IuOlGo6WUYS7quaVUgNnEdZcYfiTiEY%2F%2Fifz3czX7ybzUzj%2FLSEXLk73qUl8OaSNa1pHGS%2BzYAB%2Bh0gm%2BkJ07JMfqP%2FuMArcMKBQ5pY4QhhK%2Fq1zWyJoq6g61LmrqUSREl8%2BNxUBEX9HhhAAzMY0wG17UD21i1qu0ZAzsriN3b0QVTE4EmtSb%2BhfftiTWEvyoT%2BFDe%2BSNeSSFTvvRixOIJ2AvJbG49csq9ofkl8hS3Y6rrPP4CL%2FY2PPoIpNYz3onViEhLA5ETW1aGK0PL6b7aE6gUk%2FSyzWi%2BXJRjxzB80ewbn%2BF1Gvk9zD5iKWP8iU3soKaLWGRAYISmkkB%2Fm0ZP%2BYu6O3cdM5ZhEIKH4zaw85Sbn9Xbk6jbfQOUglftrM57QqXCzzVU8jMmhMLxPeaC6igeEhCdwVqrn2GLs0%2FKVFfbAhx4joZ7TO%2BoNFVsxSo1e%2FSuipWnZPeMyIhQzrBuNXg0qbNfVBiaowtN0NmwOvYNG00EVK300nYM4cHE2YCJ%2BXMgZpipUw9vC%2FiiBoTYeaeoZePzqXaMq6aDvRkpkH1s9zg71%2B5lic6KnG9So7BPflsI%2BdJyoU9rpFqMpy2e8SLhE8znTB2dJPkx1QHaa6NipFO3B1jjVbR55zUn55iTkKotBGL7UFTmFyE%2B7o5F&checksum=172167211096a939dd01b3ab4d0a8e09c922d8798409

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2019, 12:53:33 PM »
Yes Mike is the lead technician at my favorite saw shop. Sorry that I was less than clear on that in my post.

Excellent response time on your "beg".  Did you get both the IPL and the Service manual?  I like the IPL as the pictures of the parts in the blowups help with the service manual descriptions, at least for me.

Good luck on the reassembly.  Hopefully they did not "conveniently" leave any parts out when they gave you your saw back. (yes I am cynical)
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2019, 01:13:16 PM »
Seems they have 2 carb styles for sale, both have 2 screws, on has a limiter on the H screw, probably so as to not get it too lean.

with limiter
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-026-PRO-MS260-carburetor-replaces-WT-403B-1121-120-0610/140962891344?hash=item20d20b0650&enc=AQADAAAC0FjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduV2YahASFvnfGX8O4uunhWCTEVyfiq5ojjoKlAYIvyfHfBQaHFZ3Pktocy8OdGSKuRtG5uhKjlqZWNgVrndtaKlh%2BmLDVw84d6r7iYwtNJK%2FbB63pliAXolWmKaMsDLW9esHIPI3561bzTfGgKge3pBBhR4WtleWbPH4WaNoTOi7KUcB%2FzblMP2TMnlLSEaolw%2FTolY2zDu77c5CHVgajWHnOWa9IHUGvUX1e3mZ%2FG9pBg6Yx4pCyx9I90rQlewgHuM6TmWYQ3nqhIq1GhRPFPjPPJAWl0g1ZUVC5eR8MMpMWQD5r01YQeIFoBi6TQzZi2ujsv2LIwKovlk3ckt29ng7DhUYc1CYvpg7374dcX5s4qXP%2BgzOmYGk1yDWOmOrm3TvuCqTvXtvUa85%2B%2BBel3n9ILwXaTwxnZi3ZMhebrTPBFBsGyacOH7o5nK2Bcf67khT8KQ%2FehboADz57muA1q6Nl6Qdoprfyy2bNDVhT9yV26oQKlfEIUTABIvxpbuFDljTZU0Iyc9%2FPotVrQXzdOfRwuC7C0WlEEj7d9kte7OuGLj0I8CNkls8bf5YBB0yEWdZ6z5ViXC9lMdIHPo7rQTFwZCUjOeiEKfjMd5CzCTat31wf3iYMNHh3TWkMoTwndJiFr%2Fw4lL7M50YHUvJEYewXmjnODts7OFa0HU1ge8lFTrfH9hJKK1Ynk9M4hB6u2sM6LIi702Kj8ImZcR2V%2BqG2f%2Fo99ZQC0pP5YmjOo%2FFT7zFPRjwznyRqayAv4lXx1tA5vMKdtkXKD7s3s4O34w3oeCxAQAcOdJ1lJPF2eVZUKyqJ3IpYAppDWmpixOb%2FShodDYNyWPtro8JrbrbwTj4V9Bu1CZqoqZCqQDG5v9vyqqJkZzt4RLUTHV38O%2FCnZ%2B5%2BnnzuJopdL4EJM51v8rg%3D%3D&checksum=14096289134492dacba4bd1140cd92fd21fc5607e308

without

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carburetor-For-Stihl-024-026-MS240-MS260-Gas-Chainsaw-Walbro-WT-403B-11211200610/172167211096?hash=item2815f72858&enc=AQADAAAC8FjVrDbVsZ8oH%2F8PNHtt9VX4%2Fw7FZcmMuqsX8uaFEduV9%2BFKKgo6OITNSS9giknp06mHLlZrwAOQVhMbLqDKzjGTgC%2BsxLWeANAJeWtmqmMZMvF2Cqol%2BYeCuV5YlA%2FOfImRNYyl0xh9AMmEYFCXEmt9anHfsl0%2BVHXdz6%2BLMwNGbxZdzbXTstP0ei%2FZMEYiSVagNLde5KoP54kMctG5%2FRu4ro8OjyODgA9AhMaU2iI8uoFda6MJPnU3JHSm%2FQSrNQIrhamPIATqA8hrigD2D3%2Bl%2FUDyhfSxU7r%2BAl16Aef6URqaL1xGuIJbJY%2F%2B3ZPoN0RHYHRGedYN5MtcuekDz0IuOlGo6WUYS7quaVUgNnEdZcYfiTiEY%2F%2Fifz3czX7ybzUzj%2FLSEXLk73qUl8OaSNa1pHGS%2BzYAB%2Bh0gm%2BkJ07JMfqP%2FuMArcMKBQ5pY4QhhK%2Fq1zWyJoq6g61LmrqUSREl8%2BNxUBEX9HhhAAzMY0wG17UD21i1qu0ZAzsriN3b0QVTE4EmtSb%2BhfftiTWEvyoT%2BFDe%2BSNeSSFTvvRixOIJ2AvJbG49csq9ofkl8hS3Y6rrPP4CL%2FY2PPoIpNYz3onViEhLA5ETW1aGK0PL6b7aE6gUk%2FSyzWi%2BXJRjxzB80ewbn%2BF1Gvk9zD5iKWP8iU3soKaLWGRAYISmkkB%2Fm0ZP%2BYu6O3cdM5ZhEIKH4zaw85Sbn9Xbk6jbfQOUglftrM57QqXCzzVU8jMmhMLxPeaC6igeEhCdwVqrn2GLs0%2FKVFfbAhx4joZ7TO%2BoNFVsxSo1e%2FSuipWnZPeMyIhQzrBuNXg0qbNfVBiaowtN0NmwOvYNG00EVK300nYM4cHE2YCJ%2BXMgZpipUw9vC%2FiiBoTYeaeoZePzqXaMq6aDvRkpkH1s9zg71%2B5lic6KnG9So7BPflsI%2BdJyoU9rpFqMpy2e8SLhE8znTB2dJPkx1QHaa6NipFO3B1jjVbR55zUn55iTkKotBGL7UFTmFyE%2B7o5F&checksum=172167211096a939dd01b3ab4d0a8e09c922d8798409

It looks like the one has all three adjustments and the other has a plug on the high speed mixture adjustment.  The plug does have the appearance that you might be able pull it and put a jet screw in but ...............................

Most of the Stihl carbs after mid 90's have a black cap that limits your range of adjustment.  If you are careful they pop off really nice and you can either leave them off or after you do what you need put them back on.  For "NORMAL" carb adjustment they are just fine they way they are and I leave them on.  I ended up with a piece of deteriorated fuel pickup body (filter) that got in the carb and was able to flush it through by opening the mixture up A LOT and then after it passed bringing it back to normal
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
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Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2019, 01:16:28 PM »
Yes Mike is the lead technician at my favorite saw shop. Sorry that I was less than clear on that in my post.

Excellent response time on your "beg".  Did you get both the IPL and the Service manual?  I like the IPL as the pictures of the parts in the blowups help with the service manual descriptions, at least for me.

Good luck on the reassembly.  Hopefully they did not "conveniently" leave any parts out when they gave you your saw back. (yes I am cynical)

Yes, I got both manuals

I got the saw back together with all the old parts... I did have what seems to be an extra hose in my bag of parts. It does not seem like it is off my saw, almost looks new.  Both the oil and gas hoses are intact, the impulse hose is there so I'm no sure what else it could be.

Thanks again for the help.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2019, 03:28:15 PM »
does it run? inquiring minds want to know :)

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2019, 03:42:48 PM »
does it run? inquiring minds want to know :)

I did not even try, just wanted to make sure I could get it back together.. didn't want to gas it up.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2019, 07:33:52 PM »
I use a drywall screw to remove those pesky limiters, my 046 stihl has (had) those little red ones. I too find the illustrated parts breakdowns very helpful and I hate to admit it but I read warnings as they are usually the most efficient way to fix problems. Frank C.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2019, 08:02:13 AM »
UPDATE::

Still looking for a carb replacement, 37 varieties of knock off carbs, none with a very good rating. So I was trying to fine a Walbro replacement :o :o  Mine is stamped WT-403B, I have found NONE at any price with that number!!
The ones I am finding listed for a MS260 are a WT-194 (a little different configuration without the little snorkel thing on top, although "they" say you can switch the top plate out and put that snorkel on it, but will that alter the way it works?? or can I use it as is and use the air filter made for that style? )  And I've also found a WT-426-1, also says it is for the MS260, and has the snorkel , looks the same but still wrong number.
Are these different or just for different years, I can also find no cross-reference for these things. Apparently mine is an "intellicarb" or something, but I find little reference to it.

UPDATE TO THIS UPDATE  ;D

After all morning doing research, and reading a lot of posts over on the arborist site I ordered a carb. I ended up ordering the WT-426, which apparently the same as the WT-194 but an earlier model AND has the little snorkel on it so it more closely matches mine, and was designed for the snorkel. (apparently the snorkel is part of the intellicarb set up
Should be here in 4 days so stay tuned!
Also (going back a few posts) going through the bag of parts that came with my disassembled saw was a new fuel line and a new fuel filter, apparently they were going to start work on my saw when I told them no and left them in there..so I got a couple freebies.. that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!
« Last Edit: April 06, 2019, 11:45:43 AM by A.O. »

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2019, 11:21:56 AM »
Never really understood what the precise issue was with the saw. 
Did it not start at all?
Did it start and not run well?
Did it start run and die when it idled back down?

Since you are going down the road of replacement instead of rebuild (you said you had not even bothered to try to start as you did not want to put fuel on it)  I was wondering if you had considered soaking the carb in carb cleaner (you know those gallon buckets with dip trays)  and then blowing out with compressed air to see if that might have an effect.  Since you have the new pickup body (fuel filter) and new fuel line, install those now and when the new carb come in you will be ready and waiting and you might try the old carb after a good soak to see what happens.  Of course those soaks can be hard on the seals and you might get a carb air leak.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
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Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2019, 11:42:47 AM »
I have had off and on problems with the way it ran (for years).. Sometimes it seemed like it ran fine, other times I could not even get it started, and if I did get it started it might run ok for a while then quit. With my last fight with it, it would start right up and run good with no load, start a cut and it would die... then restarting it would be more difficult, but it would be the same.So I opted to (A) take it in, and then (B) to replace the carb mainly cause I was tired of fighting it.
It is a relatively lightly used pro grade saw, but it is also going on 20 years old. After all I've been reading, replacing the carb with the fully adjustable one, and these saws will really wake up. So I thought I would give it a try, especially since a new comparable one costs north of $500 these days.

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2019, 12:51:05 PM »
Sounds like the high mixture port had an issue (and that was not adjustable on your original carb) and may have had an obstruction of some nature.  In addition the low end mixture may have had issues as well.  A full adjust carb is nice but unfortunately they have been moving away from those for years.  The problem that I described earlier that had pickup body debris would not have been able to be fixed easily if the high jet could not have been adjusted full rich to allow the debris to pass. 

Glad you found a replacement that is full adjustable.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #36 on: April 06, 2019, 01:14:53 PM »
Sounds like the high mixture port had an issue (and that was not adjustable on your original carb) and may have had an obstruction of some nature.  In addition the low end mixture may have had issues as well.  A full adjust carb is nice but unfortunately they have been moving away from those for years.  The problem that I described earlier that had pickup body debris would not have been able to be fixed easily if the high jet could not have been adjusted full rich to allow the debris to pass. 

Glad you found a replacement that is full adjustable.

And 60 bucks compared to the 100+ the dealer wanted..

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2019, 07:08:26 AM »
This is the one I ended up ordering..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253234238442

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2019, 07:55:14 AM »
Got my parts yesterday, heading out to effect repairs..




Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2019, 10:35:20 AM »
Chain saw seems to run fine, smoking a little so I'm thinking too rich. According to my book the initial settings are as follows.

Turn high speed screw (H)
counterclockwise as far as stop (no more than 3/4 turn)

:
Carefully screw the low speed
screw (L) down onto its seat
(clockwise), then turn it back one full
turn counterclockwise.

Not really understanding the instructions on that H screw. Any advice on where to set this, I know its not good if I get too lean with it.

ALSO... on the "snorkel" on my carb, neither the old one or the new one has a O-ring on it. I've seen pics with an 0-ring being on there which makes sense or you could get debris entering that air filter at that point and entering the carb... yes or no on the O-ring? I put one on there (2 actually to get it to fit as I did not have the correct one in my kit. ) Leave it on or take it off?




Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2019, 04:02:12 PM »
First off congratulations.
Cheaper than a new saw and cheaper than their rather high total repair estimate price and even cheaper than their carb by itself.

As to the O-ring question

From my service manual 026/024 which is not the same as your model but................

"• On machines with compensator,
inspect 0-ring on stub and install
a new one if necessary."

Thus I would have an O-ring on it personally

Here are the 026/024 service manual tuning instructions.  Again a different model but all the Stihl carbs that have H, L, LA tune the same it is just the max RPM that varies.

I did read your 260 tuning instructions from a users manual and the assumptions are that the tuning caps are on which prevent you from turning more than 3/4 turn.  With your new carb you don't likely have the caps that stop you at 3/4 turn.  Be careful unless you have a good ear or a tach.  The term two- stroking is used to help ID max RPM and back off just a hair from there.

From the manual
Standard setting
To readjust the carburetor, start
with the standard setting.
- Carefully screw down both
adjusting screws until they
are against their seats.
Then make the following
adjustments:
H = High speed screw (1),
open 1 full turn
L = Low speed screw (2),
open 1 full turn
A slight correction to this setting
may be necessary at high altitudes
(mountains) or near sea level.
For corrections to high speed
screw (H):
Use a tachometer - do not
exceed max. permissible
engine speed.
Engine can be damaged by lack
of lubricant and overheating.
Maximum engine speed with bar
and properly tensioned chain:
13,000 rpm (024)
14,000 rpm (026)
Note: If no tachometer is available,
do not turn the high speed
or low speed screws beyond
the standard setting to make the
mixture leaner.

Furthermore, the engine speed of
machines with catalytic converter
must not be less than 12,000 or
13,000 rpm.
- Check chain tension.
- Check air filter and clean
if necessary.
- Inspect the spark arresting
screen and clean or replace if necessary.
- Start the engine and warm
it up
- Adjust idle speed correctly
(chain must not rotate).
Turn high speed screw (H) and
low speed screw (L) clockwise for
leaner mixture at high altitudes or
counterclockwise for richer mixture
at sea level.
Turn screws very slowly and
carefully - even slight movements
produce a noticeable change in
engine running behavior.
Note the following when making
corrections to high speed screw:
The setting of the high speed
screw (H) affects the maximum
off-load engine speed.
If the setting is too lean, the
maximum permissible engine
speed will be exceeded and
increase the risk of engine
damage.
Adjusting engine idle speed:
A correction at the low speed
screw (L) usually necessitates a
change in the setting of the idle
speed screw (LA) (3).
Engine stops while idling:
Check standard setting.
Turn idle speed screw (LA) clockwise
until the chain begins to run -
then turn it back one quarter turn.
Chain runs while engine is idling:
Check standard setting.
Turn the idle speed screw (LA)
counterclockwise until the chain
stops running - and then turn it
about another quarter turn in the
same direction.
Erratic idling behavior,
poor acceleration
Idle setting too lean.
Turn the low speed screw (L)
counterclockwise until the engine
runs and accelerates smoothly.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2019, 04:18:29 PM »
I did find on that IPL(?) manual that they showed the O-ring so I left it on. Even on the shop manual I got, it showed dealing with the limiter, and not giving me instructions like you did above , Thank you, So from what I read as long as I don't adjust the high jet less that 3/4 open I should be ok. Where I'm at I'm at about 560 feet above sea level.

And thanks for your help with this, yes instead of $240 to fix (ridiculous) or about double that on a new saw I kept everything under a hundred bucks!

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2019, 07:37:31 PM »
Basically I would say yes. However it never hurts to be exact.    Glad it turned out so well for you.

Not that much money for this one

https://www.ebay.com/bhp/chainsaw-tachometer

This is the one I bought about 10 years ago.  A bit more pricey now but it is a nice unit and worth it.  Can be used on things other than chainsaws.  Has lots of uses for any small engine tuning. But for 2- stroke Stihl equipment ( I have a few items) it is great.

https://www.amickssuperstore.com/DTI_2_Cycle_Two_Stroke_Hand_Held_Tachometer_p/dti%20tech-tach%20tt-20k%20tach.htm
« Last Edit: April 11, 2019, 08:26:00 PM by furu »
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline furu

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas, thoughts , tidbits? and REASONS?
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2019, 02:00:09 AM »
As a technique.

I keep a small 3 inch soft bristle paint brush with me and lightly brush the air filter of debris everytime I fill the fuel tank.  Keeps air-fuel mixture consistent by keeping air through the filter constant.  With the flocked filters just be careful with them.

 (Yes I am a believer in preventive equipment care)
Integrity is not just doing the right thing.
Integrity is not just doing the right thing when no one is looking.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one else will ever even know.

Offline A.O.

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas... UPDATE!!
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2019, 06:31:27 AM »
So an UPDATE to all this:

Finally got to actually put this saw through its paces yesterday, cut down and logged up a couple decent pine trees for the mill and did a bunch of clearing around my pond.. an all day affair. The saw ran great, all day long. Started up easy in the morning and then every time I stopped and restarted it was usually one pull and it was up and running again! I replaced the bad bar (and chain) with a Countrytime bar and chain from TSC and it seemed to do rather well also!
So plenty of power and easy starting and it ran great for the entire day, that has not happened in many years!

I am so GLAD to have my MS 260 back up and running correctly!!

Thanks for all the help, and I learned a bunch about how to tune my chainsaws to boot!

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Starting a search, Ideas... UPDATE!!
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2019, 08:52:40 AM »
I am still very skeptic whenever someone tells me the fuel killed something. It would be different if it was a 1960's saw but being much more modern Fuel should never come into the equation unless you ran truly bad fuel through it not just ethanol fuel but contaminated fuel.

Carbs do wear out and need replacement and cleaning occasionally. It does not matter what kind of fuel you run. Fuel is corrosive. If the tight tolerances inside the carb get eaten away enough no amount of tuning will ever be able to fix it.

Glad your back up and running. One day I may actually get into tuning saws but I sure do love my M-tronic!!!