alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description alt image description

Author Topic: Some Interesting Reading  (Read 35778 times)

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Some Interesting Reading
« on: January 20, 2008, 11:31:42 AM »
Comments welcomed
http://www.truthaboutax.com/site/1515517/page/875294

Comments about  this comment perhaps??
In most portable sawmilling situations, the bandsaws just do not cut it for accuracy, recovery, ease of use, or speed of cut. You have to be an expert sawyer to make it work at all, bandsaws are almost always slow compared to equally priced swingers, they tend to waste a lot of boards due to wavey cuts, they have difficulty cutting stressed timbers (again, a lot of wasted boards), they struggle on large logs, and they require an awful lot of double handling in resawing slabs or edging boards. And on top of all that, most serious bandsaw operators spend a couple of hours per sawing day just resharpening and readying the band blades for the next day's sawing.
Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of great technology employed in the more expensive, automated band sawmills. The point is, it's often the wrong technology for sawing logs into dimensional timbers. It's therefore overly expensive, relatively unproductive, labor intensive, and is simply the wrong application. Now, some of these problems can be minimized by sticking to smaller logs, debarking the logs (a lot of work), and adding an edger (expensive) to the operation. But my back is already hurting just talking about it!

On the plus side, most portable bandsaws can be used effectively and efficiently as efficient and practical re-saw machines. That is, use them for resawing cants and flitches into thinner stock boards, rather than trying to reduce large, whole logs into finished boards.


MORE GOOD READING :)
http://www.na.fs.fed.us/Spfo/pubs/misc/utilizingmunitrees/Sawmills.htm
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 11:49:37 AM by andybuildz »
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
  • In God We Trust!
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2008, 12:37:21 PM »
I would love to Andy! 

For now, focus on the initial reference of "portable".  Depending on the mill, if its not set up on the site properly, as in LEVEL, then you will have problems.  While helping Tom set up a Baker mill in FL the one thing, of many he shared,  he hated about his mill was what it took to get it Level.   If the mill is set up level "AND STAYS THAT WAY" through the day of cutting your halfway there.  Mill choice plays a big role keeping it level!

"Bandsaws do not cut it for accuracy"
"most portable bandsaws can be used effectively and efficiently as efficient and practical re-saw machines. That is, use them for resawing cants and flitches into thinner stock boards"
Considering the boards you cut from the cant are the ones that need to be accurate for the market, which statement of this author do you want to believe?  Its great for the finished product yet they dont cut it for accuracy?  Whats he selling? 

Its proven that with a thin kerf your recovery is always greater than thick kerf. To imply otherwise is either a sales pitch, or ignorance.  And remember, ignorance is only a sin when its a prefered state of mind. 

As far as ease of use, I guess that will depend on the student ;D  My band mill was so easy to figure out that I was cutting lumber long before I got any tips from anyone. 

Speed of cut is relative to size of the HP driving the machine.  The sawmill shoot out proved band mills cut more BF per hour than any swinger of comparable cost and the resulting lumber total is what proved it.   

"You have to be an expert sawyer to make it work at all"
I guess then I am an expert, if you can believe this persons words. I have met some "Self Proclaimed" experts but thats where it stops.  When one gets to the point where they cant learn anymore then they are experts and I dont think that is happening in the sawing business.  Especially since I am still learning and do pretty well with the lumber I cut! 


"bandsaws are almost always slow compared to equally priced swingers"
Not according to the sawmill shoot out!   ;D


"they tend to waste a lot of boards due to wavey cuts"
If this is the case, then why on earth would he say this?
On the plus side, most portable bandsaws can be used effectively and efficiently as efficient and practical re-saw machines
Way to much double speak!

"they have difficulty cutting stressed timbers"
Any mill can have difficulty cutting stressed timber.  The key is to know "how" to cut stressed timber for maximum yeild.  It doesnt take an expert to figure that out either.  If you dont know how to cut the stressed timber, all mills will waste boards but with knowledge aside, yeild is ALWAYS lower in stressed timber, assuming you cut the stress out of it!

"they struggle on large logs"
Define Large?  Swingers have there place and logs over 36" is their specialty.  That is what they were DESIGNED for.  With a limited BIG log market, once you have sold units to address that market, you have to come up with reasons to use it in another market. I regulary cut logs in the 30" range and most sawyers would consider that "large". 


"they require an awful lot of double handling in resawing slabs or edging boards"
I dont double handle my slabs.  Slabs dont need resawed if you cut the board out from the begining!  Back to knowhing how to cut. My boards that need edged never leave the mill since I dont have an edger.  They get layed over while I cut the cant and when I get to a size board appropriate for the boards that need edged, I stand them up and edge them while cutting boards from the cant.  Its called efficient sawing!

"most serious bandsaw operators spend a couple of hours per sawing day just resharpening and readying the band blades for the next day's sawing"
.......................................................had to try real hard from spitting my coffee all over the screen.  I can cut all day and use at most 4 blades.  I can set and sharpen 4 blades in less than 30 minutes.  In most cases I will use three blades and have them sharpened in about 15 mintues.  Sure, a swinger blade can be sharpened on the mill and much quicker than I can sharpen by blades but I think his comments are just a tid bit exagerated.

"There is a lot of great technology employed in the more expensive, automated band sawmills. The point is, it's often the wrong technology for sawing logs into dimensional timbers".
Then I would ask him to explane why so many larger mills have implemented bandmills as a way to increase production.  Thats a fact that can not be disproved! 


"It's therefore overly expensive",
Define overly expensive?  The market will determine cost/value, not the company selling the mill. The old saying of you get what you pay for is still true today. Sure, there are exceptions but I dont see that being the case in the sawmill industry.

"relatively unproductive",
I have cut as much as 3200 BF in a day with one helper. Thats pretty darn productive for part time sawyer............in my opinion.

"labor intensive"
Have yet to meet any sawyer, swing mill operator or otherwise that felt this ocupation was not labor intensive. I rather grab ALL my boards at waist level instead of having to bend over to pick them up as the log got smaller, which happens to be a complaint of several swing mill owners.   

"Now, some of these problems can be minimized by sticking to smaller logs, debarking the logs (a lot of work), and adding an edger (expensive) to the operation. But my back is already hurting just talking about it!"
As is mine thinking about how rediculous this sales pitch is.  ;D

With all this in mind, Swing mills have there place in the market and if I were to purchase one I would probably go with a Peterson or Brand X mill, but then if I really need that style of mill, I think MD has the most to offer!
 
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 12:41:30 PM by KEA »
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2008, 01:05:45 PM »
Excellent rebutal. What struck me as odd was that knowing who authored the article you could expect him to be predudiced and even he sorta says so in the beginning yet you'd think he might be a bit less obvious even to a novice like myself. How can the reader take what he says with anymore validity than a grain of sea salt in an entire ocean.
The article...while interesting sure made me go...hmmmmmmmmm.
Sure isn't very good advertising if you ask me although what it does do is pose some good question a novice may be wondering.

I read some where that the Mobile dimension saw was over seventy grand loaded...although I know the WM can be as such as well fully loaded. Probably more.

I really couldn't find prices. I spose I'll fill in their form and get some info for the future.

For me....and novices like me...I first would need to know "exactly" what I'm needing the saw for besides wanting another toy...I mean tool...lol. For me I'd have to say first would be for building when I move assuming I can get offa this island already and get a bit more rural.  I'm "sure" the first thing it'd be used for are out building...the mill building comes to mind  first...a place to keep her most secure and productive.
Second "might" be for timbers for the house or portions of the house. a lot depends on whereI am and the availability of materials and resources.

I spose I always had my eye on the WM 28? I think it is? I'm sure when the time comes everything has a good chance of changing as usual.
And as the late great John Lennon used to say: Life's what happens to you while you're busy making other plans".
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 01:09:22 PM by andybuildz »
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2008, 02:07:02 PM »
No way on the price, Andy.  My mill would only cost around $40,000 with all the bells and whistles of the hydraulics.  To get a Model 128 MD mill with a double axel trailer, loading ramps with the winch would cost perhaps no more than close to $28,000. 

NOW, do not quote me on the price.  You would have some shipping and such to add, I suppose, unless you came out and picked it up yourself.  They also like to have you go through the factory and a class on the operation and maintainance of the unit, which is free by the way.

If you have equipment to load the logs youself, you would not need the winch system or ramps.  Also, you may not even want a trailer and just use the board and block system; in that case your costs could dwindle down to around $20,000. perhaps. 

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 02:15:29 PM »
No way on the price, Andy.  My mill would only cost around $40,000 with all the bells and whistles of the hydraulics.  To get a Model 128 MD mill with a double axel trailer, loading ramps with the winch would cost perhaps no more than close to $28,000. 

NOW, do not quote me on the price.  You would have some shipping and such to add, I suppose, unless you came out and picked it up yourself.  They also like to have you go through the factory and a class on the operation and maintainance of the unit, which is free by the way.

If you have equipment to load the logs youself, you would not need the winch system or ramps.  Also, you may not even want a trailer and just use the board and block system; in that case your costs could dwindle down to around $20,000. perhaps. 
Thanks Frank...I did just write them and explained my position. I even threw your name in telling them that you turned me onto their mill.
Hope the price doesn't go up now...lol.

Going to their plant is kind of a stretch if I end up moving to NC but who knows? Their machine sure seems like one worth considering. so far theirs and the WM 28 have stuck out in my mind.
When the time comes I'm sure I'll have a billion questions.
I know a guy that has the smaller WM and preferes that because of it's weight. He added a much larger engine to it. He made some good points but I haven't really filed any of the details in my head. Just keeping the basics stored up there for now. Only so much room left....lol.
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2008, 01:46:17 PM »
So?  I do not let big brother on this place.  I have no employes, as well.  They have been told that they could leave here cuffed and in a deputy vehicle.  Or, not at all.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 12:42:44 PM by Frank Pender »

Offline truthaboutax

  • New Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 02:56:09 AM »
Kea,
You raised some interesting points that require a little more debate to be "settled". Firstly, you accuse me of contradicting myself about the accuracy thing. I've been around bandsaws and bandsaw operators enough to know that wide cuts through large logs can be very tough for a bandsaw, even if the logs are debarked. I have observed many times how the bandsaw accuracy improves as the size of cut diminishes. And all it takes is for the band to strike a small stone or a hard knot and suddenly the bandsaw cut is all over the place. So that board goes to the waste heap, you stop and put a freshly sharpened band on, you cut out the next wavey board and put that one too on the scrap heap, and suddenly the much vaunted thin-kerf argument doesn't amount to anything. Makes sense to me to cut those cants and flitches with a swinger, and then resaw when convenient with a bandsaw; once you know what the market wants. And yes, I've been and operated at a shootout in Maine, and the Peterson mills (listing at $10,000) got 1st and 2nd place, beating every bandsaw under $30,000 (nearly doubling production rates), and very close to the bandsaws for recovery rates. And, all the bandsaws actually debarked the logs before the competition! I haven't been to a shoot out for while, and I know that things may not work out well for anyone on a given day, but both the Lucas and Peterson swingers consistently out-cut all others any where near their price brackets. As far as recovery goes, there must be a proviso with your claim of "proven better recovery". The band must be absolutely sharp at all times, and the machine must be set up expertly, otherwise your recovery claim is pure xxxxxxxx. What's the use of producing a small pile of sawdust when your waste pile and planer shavings pile is huge? For your information, I am not involved with Peterson sawmills anymore, but I still understand the merits and advantages of the Peterson mill and other swingers. By the sound of it, you qualify as an expert bandsaw operator. I've seen and talked to many an "expert", none of which figured how to avoid double handling or knew how to sharpen four bands in 15 minutes! Or you may have more plain old common sense than most. But believe me, common sense is not common! And many a would-be novice bandsaw operator would do well to gain some expert help at the start to fill in the gap where common sense should be! All in all, I'd have to say that your "rebuttal" was not as objective as it might have been; unless of course, you've never cut a wavey board(s). And yes, many a fixed site mill has spent big money installing bandsaws. If you've got that kind of money, got all the ancillary equipment needed (including a debarker), got a stable log supply and guaranteed market, then go for your life! Neiher the Peterson nor Lucas swingers were designed for that environment. Carl Peterson
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 12:15:44 PM by KEA »

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
  • In God We Trust!
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 12:10:55 PM »
Welcome to the "discussion" Carl.  I appreciate the "now" included definition you refer to, which is "wide" cuts.  Somthing that was not in the original comment.  Wide cuts do tend to be a challenge but not one that cant be dealt with very easily and depending on the wood, they are no problem at all.  I have several very accurate 20" boards from most hardwoods and all were cut with a bandmill.  I have had no problems cutting accurate lumber with my bandmill and that is my point of reference.

As far as throwing a board into the waste heap, we don’t do that.  We cut rough lumber, dry it, and then its planed and sold.   

I understand your feeling that it makes sense to you to cut the cants from a swinger then resaw later but the very knots your referencing are still in the cant and what makes doing this even less practical is the fact that as the cant dries it gets harder to cut and is even harder on blades, any blade. 

I’m not sure what you mean by "doubling production rates" and then stating they came very close to the bandsaws "recovery rates".  What I referred to was the sawlex two years ago, which I attended and the bandsaws produced more lumber per hr and NONE of the logs were debarked.  Does that make them better?  NO.  They all have a purpose and I think the biggest place for the swingers is on the logs over 30".  Just my opinion.

I cut great lumber all day and the ban is only absolutely sharp in the beginning.  Feed rates drop but I still can cut a fair amount of lumber, accurate lumber, with a dulled blade.  And please keep in mind, although Osage Orange may not be the hardest wood in the world, it is the hardest in North America and I cut a boat load of it with no problems.

Depending on the machine, I agree, set up must be done right.  WM seems to have an edge on that side of things by design over other bandmills and that again is my point of reference.  I have cut "accurate" lumber from my mill without even dropping the outriggers.  As far as my recovery claim, not sure what it is you think is cow dung but to date my best day of sawing I have cut 3200 BF of western red cedar.  I dont care to do that every day but I believe that is the only recovery rate claim I made and what’s great about this, your entitled to disagree or even refuse to believe it and most of all, publicly state it here. 

I am aware your not involved with Peterson anymore. I am the one who sent you the email that Peterson sent me wanting my post about your 12" swinger removed.  Something I refused to do by they way.  Who you are or are not “with” is irrelevant. 

Maybe you missed my comments about experts.  I am by no means an expert, nor do I believe there are any "true" experts in this industry.  Nothing scarier than a self proclaimed expert. 

As far as avoiding double handling, isn’t cutting a cant with a swinger then to have to move it and cut it again with a bansdaw a form of double handling? 

Band sharpening on an automatic CBN sharpener takes about 3-5 minutes. Considering I said "In most cases I will use three blades and have them sharpened in about 15 mintues.", that would mean 5 minutes x 3= 15 mintues. No rocket sience or smoke and mirrors.  I reset after about 3-4 sharpening.  Now on an older style where you have to continualy dress the sharpening stone it takes a little longer but regardless, it doesnt take a couple of hours to sharpen the blades used in a day. 

I agree, novice bandsaw operators would do well to gain some input from more experienced sawyers.  Kind of what a forum like this is all about.  Honest open discussion without pressure from any manufacture coupled with respect towards others views. 

In regards to the larger operatoins installing bandmills, knowing business minded profit ventures tend to do their homework or they dont succeed, I thought such a reference has quite a bit of validity considering we dont see those types of operations installing swing mills. You pointed out, they were not designed for that environment.  What environment would you say they are designed for? 

My mill, which has a debarker on it, does just fine cutting what I need to cut, both wide cuts and and small. I agree that there are many factors that come into play with what mill a person chooses and no matter what, there will always be differences of opinions.

I believe the swing mills have their place in the industry, just as do bandmills and cirlce mills.  If I was going to break logs down to cants for resawing on a bandmill my first choice would be a circle mill as it does it faster than a swinger anyday.  That however, does not diminish the value a swinger has in the market place. 

Carl if I didnt think the swingmills had there place I would not have established a thread specifically for them.  I have posted many times that I wish I had one.  I have several 60" log in my yard right now that would be perfect for the swinger.  They have there place. 

With all of this in mind, I find it very interesting that most mills, regardless of brand, can produce more than enough lumber to keep its owner satisfied.  Thats what its all about for most of us.  Personal satisfaction!


« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 02:52:39 PM by KEA »
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
  • In God We Trust!
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 04:27:56 PM »
Out of curiosity I pulled out the Sawmill and Woodlot mag that had the sawmill shoot out information in it. 

So there is no confusion, the shootout is designed as more of a demonstration although they do track the numbers so buyers have fact based figures to work from.  It is not a competition to determin which mill is better or faster.  Its a chance for all the manufactures to get some great exposure and share what their mills can do.

With that in mind:
Classified as production swing blade mills
Pertson 8"WPF - 543 BF/hr with -13% overrun from log scale
Lucas 830K - 674 BF/hr with -8% overrun from log scale

Classified as production band mills
Baker 3665 - 1020 BF/hr with +15% overrun from log scale
Woodmizer LT40 - 758 BF/hr with -3% overrun from log scale
Woodmizer LT70 - 1268 BF/Hr with +9% overrun from log scale
Select - 798 BF/hr. with +13% overrun from log scale

Classified as Hobby Mill
Peterson Skill mill 109 BF/hr with +23% overrun from log scale
WM LT15 - 505 BF/hr with -3% overrun from log scale (ball park a $5000 mill)

If you dont get the magazine you should.  Its a great source of information and has all the details of the shootout in it.

Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
  • In God We Trust!
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2008, 08:55:07 AM »
Anyone have the Sawmill and Woodlot mag from two years ago that had the Sawlex Shootout results?  It would be nice to compare that year to this years. 
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2008, 05:26:47 PM »
i have the sept/05
shoot out offical results
Baker3667d w/ edger  996bf/hr yield 91%
baker 18 HD w/edger   521 bf/hr yield 102%
ecosaw                     90 bf/hr yield 32%
logosolM7                  214 bf/hr  yield 82%
lucas 827                  335 bf/hr  yield 81%
peterson wpf              432 bf/hr yield 61%
woodmizer lt15            288 bf/hr  yield 89%
woodmizer lt 40-g28    430 bf/hr yield 93%
woodmizer lt 40 hd     
supper hyd w/ edger    830 bf/hr yield 91%

 do you want the lumber scale, log scale info, sawing time info
Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2008, 05:31:34 PM »
the eco saw & lucas, peterson wpf are circle
logosol m-7 is a chainsaw mill
all others were bands
Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
  • In God We Trust!
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2008, 05:57:48 PM »
If you dont mind posting the data that would be great.  I thought from what I remembered the peterson log yeilds were low that year compared to last year. 

Regardless, the 2 years present a clear and honest picture of what the mills can or can not do when it comes to BF/hr and yeild percentage from log scale..................other than the eco saw.  That poor guy was having trouble ALL day with his mill and I dont think he was realy prepared for the shootout as what he brought was a brand new model that had not been tested from what I recall.   
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2008, 09:20:09 PM »
i have the sept/05
shoot out offical results
Baker3667d w/ edger  996bf/hr yield 91%
baker 18 HD w/edger   521 bf/hr yield 102%
ecosaw                     90 bf/hr yield 32%
logosolM7                  214 bf/hr  yield 82%
lucas 827                  335 bf/hr  yield 81%
peterson wpf              432 bf/hr yield 61%
woodmizer lt15            288 bf/hr  yield 89%
woodmizer lt 40-g28    430 bf/hr yield 93%
woodmizer lt 40 hd     
supper hyd w/ edger    830 bf/hr yield 91%

 do you want the lumber scale, log scale info, sawing time info

Hey....fer us novices......well...I'm the only novice here :) can you explain what that means. Yield in realtionship to board foot per hour. Too hard to figure out just looking at those numbers being some BF/hr have higher yields than others and visee versee.
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2008, 09:55:40 PM »
 the sept/05
shoot out offical results
                             sawing time  log scale  lumber scale          bf/hr      yield

Baker3667d w/ edger    24m 59se     457             414.9         996bf/hr      yield 91%
baker 18 HD w/edger     45   18        386             393.6         521 bf/hr     yield 102%
ecosaw                        78   14        367             116.3         90 bf/hr      yield 32%
logosolM7                      96    36       422             345.3          214 bf/hr  yield 82%
lucas 827                     36   14         415             335             335 bf/hr  yield 81%
peterson wpf                 33    17        395             239.6          432 bf/hr yield 61%
woodmizer lt15               79    8         427              380           288 bf/hr  yield 89%
woodmizer lt 40-g28        54    19        420             389           430 bf/hr yield 93%
woodmizer lt 40 hd     
supper hyd w/ edger        25     32       388             353.3           830 bf/hr yield 91%

Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 09:59:19 PM »
andy look at the log scale the estimated bf in the logs   386
compaired to the accual bf they cut out                       393.6
they got more than log estamated so this yield was over, yield 102%
example
baker 18 HD w/edger     45   18        386             393.6         521 bf/hr     yield 102%
Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2008, 10:01:37 PM »
I know about one comparison withother mills that MD had drawn a number of logs that had, had nails in them and their production rate was a little on the downhill side of things, before they got finished.

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2008, 10:06:24 PM »
that would be disasterous to any mill team
Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2008, 06:34:36 AM »
andy look at the log scale the estimated bf in the logs   386
compaired to the accual bf they cut out                       393.6
they got more than log estamated so this yield was over, yield 102%
example
baker 18 HD w/edger     45   18        386             393.6         521 bf/hr     yield 102%
Ahhhhhhhhh...ok..gotcha, thanks Mike.I'm really not as dumb as I look :)
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2008, 06:44:52 AM »
andy look at the log scale the estimated bf in the logs   386
compaired to the accual bf they cut out                       393.6
they got more than log estamated so this yield was over, yield 102%
example
baker 18 HD w/edger     45   18        386             393.6         521 bf/hr     yield 102%
Oh wait...I might be dumber than I look...WOW..whats the deal with the board foot per hour. I mean I assume that means how many board feet were cut in an hour, right? so why do the numbers per mill vary so drastically in some comparrisons??
Like the Woodmizer 15/vs the ecosaw...
Hey look...sum1 has ta ask these dumb questions.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2008, 06:47:19 AM by andybuildz »
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline mike p

  • Senior Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 939
  • adicted to the aroma of oak
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2008, 06:59:30 AM »
[
Oh wait...I might be dumber than I look...WOW..whats the deal with the board foot per hour. I mean I assume that means how many board feet were cut in an hour, right? so why do the numbers per mill vary so drastically in some comparrisons??
Like the Woodmizer 15/vs the ecosaw...
Hey look...sum1 has ta ask these dumb questions.

as i understand it thats how many they got done in an hour with the equipment listed
[/quote]
Eagle's Nest Tree farm & Sawmill
BSA Scoutmaster Retired
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from
 too much government.
   Thomas Jefferson 1802
 No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.

   Thomas Jefferson

Offline andybuildz

  • Major Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • I am not a moderator, I am a meditator
    • www.cliffordrenovations.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2008, 07:08:31 AM »
Well then I guess if thats really the case then Ecosaw should drop out of the race and cry uncle! Loud!!
The secret to Zen in just "two" words is, "not always so".
       http://HTTP://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

Offline Kirk Allen

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 3281
  • In God We Trust!
    • Vindicator Nozzles
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2008, 12:10:24 PM »
I think I did mentino the eco saw had major issues.  They brought a new saw that had lots of assembly problems and that directly effected what they could do that day.  I suspect, if they worked them out, it would be up there with the other swingers.
Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is watching!

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

  • Administrator
  • Old Timers Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 1965
    • www.TanglewoodTimber@aol.com
Re: Some Interesting Reading
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2008, 10:23:04 PM »
I heard that the eco saw company folks, also the double cut, are trying to sell out the company.