Author Topic: Hello from south west Michigan (Read 28738 times)

Oakiemac · « **on:** November 18, 2008, 07:16:20 PM »

Nice looking site. I have always wondered what the "other" site really was and it looks like I found it.

A little introduction: I run a '97 Mobile Dimension sawmill, 2 Nyle kilns and some finish milling equipment. I mostly sell kiln dried hardwoods but do some custom sawing and drying as well.

Nice to see some old freinds here and as someone told me once-"you can't have too many friends."

joasis · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2008, 08:09:59 PM »

Welcome to the small and exclusive club, we are glad to have you!

mike p · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2008, 05:03:05 AM »

how deeeeeeeee this is the place

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2008, 07:42:34 AM »

Good to hear from you Okiemac. Hope all is going well for you and the family. Glad you found the site and hope you join in as you have a lot to offer folks.

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2008, 06:20:51 PM »

Welcome a board, Oakiemac. It is really nice to have another MD sawyer on site. I have been a bit lonesome with all these band mills around.

mike p · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2008, 06:32:19 PM »

[quote I have been a bit lonesome with all these band mills around.
[/quote]
aww hes just bragging now

joasis · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2008, 07:13:45 PM »

I bet Oakiemac got a nasty gram from the "other" site, and he won't be back

I think the "other" forum should apply this in their sign up rules that you can't stray.....I bet they are socialists, huh?

Mr Mom · « **Reply #7 on:** November 23, 2008, 05:34:39 AM »

I never got one.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

joasis · « **Reply #8 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:08:59 AM »

From when we have seen, they only bully people who accept it. I have yet to meet anyone who can dictate to me who I can befriend, or what forums I can belong to....but it does happen. We have deleted some member accounts by request after they get hammered for signing up on this forum....they "claim" we are out to destroy them or something....when in fact, we are simply providing a forum, with no strings attached, and no fund drives or forum support drives, since begging for money to fund a lie is stealing.

This forum is paid up for the next 2 years...we don't take a penny from anyone...and we never will. It costs very little to run a forum...Some of you know I moderate contractortalk.com, woodworkingtalk.com, and diychatroom.com, and those forums have over 70,000 members, probably 15000 active, and they are profitable enterprises.....and the basic costs are the same. Anyone that claims it costs hundreds or thousands of dollars to maintain a forum is a liar, plain and simple, and the forumites that propagate the lie are as bad..off my soapbox now.

We enjoy providing this forum...to all our contributing members, to share information, links, experiences, photos, and most importantly, maintain friendships.

All of our members are considered "owners" since the members make a forum....the forum does not "create" members.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #9 on:** November 23, 2008, 06:35:28 PM »

Jay I hope your wrong about Okiemac not coming back. I have met him and I never figured him to by the kind that would take kindly to intimidation.

Mr Mom, not sure if you visit the Forestry Forum or not but that is the site Joasis referenced pertaining to the nasty gram so many have gotten.

I have had numerous members share the nasty gram (form letter) and this is what it says.

(user names) I dont know if you realize it, but there are 3 or 4 members banned from the forum in the past that have vowed to detroy us and make my life miserable. I got a message from one of our members thinking you are in on it because of the "recent company you keep". I'm sure your not and told them so, but we have several members that monitor these guys to make sure that other members dont get snake bit as one put to me one time. If you would like further explanation, I would be glad to give you a call. I just thought I owed you a message since I got this one.

(added for clarity)
What we call the nasty gram tends to come to new members and it seems to always be after the FF has their financial fund drive. I assume people get set back by the request for donations and some of them end up here. We see some stay and others go. I shared it so everyone knows what I am talking about, both on the subject of the letter we see getting sent and the truth about the fund raising.

I am not sure what their issue really is but I do know the claims of their owner and administrator no being a part of the fund drive is not true. I have copies of the private discusions about how those very people believe the fund drive would be more successful if it was ran by a select few members and keep the owners name out of it. That suggestion came directly from the owner.

As for the crisis thread, I do have some accumulated thoughts on that, but would like to wait until this work is done to bring them together in a cohesive manner.
A short version would be, to do two fund raising drives a year, I think if we had a member, or group of members in charge of making the announcements for that, and making encouraging posts during the fund raing periods, that it would be most successful. More so then if its me or Xxxxx (wife) doing it.

(from a member)
I am submitting this post to initiate the development of a Bi-annual Pledge Drive to support the Forestry Forum so that we can keep it free and operating as we have all enjoyed.

We need a Core group of members to take on the yoke of managing the Pledge Drive Process once we have established the Guiding Principles and Operating Guidelines.

(From an administrator)
IMO, no matter who runs a pledge drive, it will look like its coming from Jeff. I don't care how you package it, the appearance will still look the same. There are some people that will have a field day with it. If you do go ahead, I think that it should be very low key. I would put a thread at the top of several boards, then put on a sticky, then lock it. Nothing worse than reading who donated what. "My $XXX is in the mail" is a big turnoff, especially to non-members. We have more non-members cruising through than members. If you want a thread for cheering, do it in the Board Room.

These are the facts of the fund raising issue and the only reason I bring this up is because everytime they have a fund raiser we see our numbers go up and get messages from people about it. So now you have the truth about the fund raisers they have. That truth comes from the owner of that site, one of his admins, and one of his members. No fabrications, no additions etc. Just the truth!

For the record, I could care less what goes on at their forum and if people choose to be intimidated by the police tactics they impose then they are probably not the type of people most of us would sit down and have coffee with let alone establish a freindship with. What I do care about is doing what I can to prevent others from being taken advantage of like myself and others here.

I have had some people send me a message telling me so and so is on another forum. What seperates myself from the "other" forum is I dont care where people visit. In fact, we encourage everyone to visit as many as possible to seek out the info they need or provide the info they have to others. That is what the internet is all about.

Its not about Kingdom creation. We are not driven by the dollar here, nor is Woodbutcher with his forum. This is simply a common interest we share and we would never think of asking our members to raise money for us to pay our personal bills, let alone the forum costs. Its just not right in my opinion.

Now that is said, let get back to what we enjoy!

Mr Mom · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2008, 04:26:33 AM »

cool new web sites to look at thanks alot

.
I belong to i think five forum's and i join to get information and ideas.
I have no problem helping with money to help out any forum's but money is tight all the time with one person working.

Thanks Alot Mr Mom

joasis · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2008, 07:35:00 AM »

The whole point is that sponsors pay the way of operating a forum. Our brief time with Google adds paid for a couple of years....in other words, there is not a legitimate reason to even ask for donations from members if there is paid advertising on a site or forum, ever. To misrepresent costs and obtain money from members is stealing, and stealing represents the character qualities of someone that honest men avoid.

We have beat this to the ground, and it is a moot point for us. We are not in the forum business to pay for hunting cabins, "crashed" servers

, 4 wheelers, unemployment, laziness, or whatever reasons are given for the fund raising....we are simply here to have a group of like minded members sharing a love of sawdust, for free. The registered owners of the forum are Frank, Kirk, and I....and we actually work, and pay our way...same for the forum...paid in full. There will NEVER be a request for funds from our members.

There is no "hidden" agenda, no bullying, no harassing, no accusations, and no tales that are not in the open. There are no secret rooms, or restricted ass kisser areas for members in good standing....here is what you get....a forum of information and idea exchanges.

Some view this is "hostile" or "negative" to even present one side of an issue....well, if the truth hurts, so be it. There are probably a few good guys who have signed up and avoid this forum simply because they don't like the controversy. I don't like it either, but what I am not about is being afraid to take a stand. I stand for integrity and honesty, not backroom BS...and the spineless cowards of the internet can find me, via phone, or address, anytime they choose...I am a public person, as is Kirk, and Frank. And guess what? Not a whisper.....but that is what cowards and bullies do, and what they cannot abide is anyone who stands up to them...they have to hide their thoughts in a boardroom or woodshed to keep the flock from knowing what they are really like.

So my last word on this is thus: If you are a member on other forums, we welcome you....but if you are going to sign up, and then cave in to a bully or guilt trip and vanish, why bother? We are not concerned with numbers, only quality of information and members that make it happen...the true owners of the forum.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #12 on:** November 24, 2008, 09:08:03 AM »

Mr. Mom,
I to have no problem helping out with money for a forum provided its truely justified and is in fact "helping out the forum", and most importantly the whole truth is provided, not just part of it.

What I found out was the contributions I made to support a "forum" were in fact being used for personal expenses. I think a person has a right to know when they provide funds to support a forum that those funds are in fact supporting the persons personal expenses such as morgages, insurance, truck payments, etc.

When an owner of a site tells a select core group of people its best for them to ask for the money and fails to tell the general membership that the money is not just to support the forum but that it also supports his personal expenses then I beleive that is wrong.

Please, everyone hear me on this! I dont have a problem with a person making a living from a web site. What I have a problem with is when an owner of a web site encourages a few loyal members in his group to ask for money to support the forum, which is not telling the general membership the "whole" truth. I know this because I used to be in that core group of people and have heard it all. It went against every moral fiber in my body and I left!

I suppose now after the truth has been exposed numerous times the new claim will be that the fund drives do in fact support the forum. The money from the sponsors now supports the owner, not the forum. Thats how you put a political twist to get what you want.

Kind of like when the state of Illinois said it was going to have a lottery and the procedes would go into the state education system. Well it sounded great up front but what happen was the state took what used to be the budget for education and used it elseware. Everyone was under the "impression" the lottery money would be an addition to the education budget since that's how it was implied but turns out that was not the case.

If you want to send money to support a forum its your business. My only suggestion would be to make sure that is in fact what your money is realy being used for. If you dont care if its being used for something else then make sure you spell my name right when you send the check

Oakiemac · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2008, 08:02:24 PM »

I have received no nasty grams and am intimidated by no one. I signed up to say hi and to possibly post about wood related issues and maybe some political stuff. I know very little about the spat going on between Jeff and this forum and quite frankly I don't really want to know.

I posted here in good faith and with freindly intentions. If you don't like the way a certain forum is being run, and its obivious that certain people here don't, then you have every right to start your own which you have. That's great and that is what I thought this forum was about- a different type of wood related forum. I noticed that there are political discussions here and that is great. They are banned on the FF, and while I find that annoying and I dissagree with it, it is certainly within the rights of the administrators of that forum to set what ever rules they see fit. That is another reason I thought I would come here is to disscuss current political events that have me very concerned.

However after reading the above posts about fund raising drives on another forum, I can't help myself but ask why do you care? Why rant on and on about how they do buisness? You didnt like the FF so you left and started your own-great now leave it at that. Why the mean spirited attacks on people that run that forum or choose to stay there?

I'll probably stick to the FF just because it seems like a more freindly site and I havent' read any posts bashing any other forums.

danweb · « **Reply #14 on:** November 25, 2008, 09:55:39 PM »

Well guys, this will probably get me booted , but you know I have to say this. I may be speakin out of line and maybe i dont have all the facts, but the way you guys treated that fellow ( oakiemac) was a travesty. Maybe you all have a history, i dont know. but I came here to this site because you all seemed to have a love for sawing and a real desire for a certain bonding to like minded people. And up to this incedent, I believe that was true. But Man!! the way you jumped on this other site, and did all the berating and finger pointing. Whats up with that? I came here to learn and to meet friendly people, but guys, you have dissapointed me as well as others. You know my saviour Jesus Christ once asked that he that is without sin cast the first stone. You know lifes too short for bickering and holding grudges, lets get back to what we all love and enjoy sharing. And to what i hope this site is dedicated to. Teaching others, making lifelong friends and sharing. Good night and god bless you all. Dan

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #15 on:** November 25, 2008, 11:06:19 PM »

Steve, (Oakimac) I have met you and personaly believe you know nothing in my post was mean spirited. My post was nothing more than sharing the truth in hopes that others are not taken advantage of like I was. If it came across any other way then I am sorry for that, as that was not the intention. You deserve an answer to your questions, as does everyone.
can't help myself but ask why do you care

I care becuase like I mentioned, I believe people have a right to know the truth, not just part of it when it comes to someone wanting there money, regardless of what forum it is. I got stung as did Frank Pender and I think you would agree, if you know the bridge is out down the road you have an obligation to let people know that. Nothing more!

I can appreciate your position regarding not seeing any other forum bashing from the FF but considering I use to have full access to all the private board rooms that was not open to the general membership I would simply say that is because you have either not had the access I use to or its been deleted. We do not have any private rooms that loyalty to the site gives you access to. Everything is available for all to see with virtually no restrictions.

Like I told you in my email, we appreciate you visiting the site and look foward to your contribution. If my sharing of my personal experience offended you or anyone then I am sorry for that as that was not my intention in any fasion.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #16 on:** November 25, 2008, 11:57:02 PM »

Dan, rest assured, sharing your views here will not get you booted! Your not speaking out of line because the forum is what the members (new and old) make it. Knowing Steve (Oakimac), I didnt figure he would allow anyone to intimidate him I am glad to hear he has not been a recipient of the intimidation others have recieved.

As far as finger pointing and berating another site, I want you to know that finger pointing and berating is not pointed at the vast majority of the members of the site as many of them are very good friends to this day. Its pointed at the select few who took advantage of our good will financialy and under false pretence.

You know my saviour Jesus Christ once asked that he that is without sin cast the first stone.

I greatly appreciate those words and I do my best to adhere to them as I do the rest of Gods Word. This whole topic use to be a very heavy burden on my heart but after a lot of research and seeking of input by some very respected spiritual leaders in my life it became evident that some things needed exposed and other things did not. My emphisis has been on truth.

Acts 4:18-20
Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. But Peter and John replied, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in Gods Sight to obey you rather than God. For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard”.

For me to forgive is one thing and I have moved on but I am not to be silent about what I have seen and heard, especially when the things I continue to see and hear reflect no correction in the wrong doings.

1 Timothy 5:7
Give the people these instructions, too, so that no one may be open to blame. If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he is denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
5:20-22 – Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning. I charge you, in the sight of God and the Christ Jesus and the elect angels, to keep these instructions without partiality and to do nothing out of favoritism. Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. (the underlined 6 words express that this chapter is not “just” for the Widows, Elders and Slaves)

Christ offended many in his efforts of spreading the word and my sharing of TRUTH, although may offend the guilty, is by no means wrong nor intended to be mean spirited. I am by no means above approach in my walk and in fact I encourage my friends to point out when I am wrong as without that accountability I too would fall from Gods Grace. I know in my heart that the sharing of my experiences are intended in good faith and in hopes of preventing others from being hurt as I was. If doing so has disappointed you Dan then I am sorry for causing disappointment however I am not sorry for sharing what truely comes from the heart. That sharing is part of the very teaching I have recieved and its done with the best of intentions.

The tough part with sharing this information is its all typed out on a screen. I wish you could hear me in person to better grasp the true concern I have have on this matter. Hearing a persons tonal inflections and seeing facial expressions leads to a much better form of communication and here its impossible to share that, which I know brings far more understanding to the topic.

2 Thessalonians chapter 3
Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right. If anyone does not obey our instructions in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

I hope you can better understand these matters Dan and if at any time you or anyone else would like to discuss them please call me as I welcome the dialog.

Please know this, I test all things and hold fast to that which is good and as commanded by my Savior, I will never tire of doing what is right.

joasis · « **Reply #17 on:** November 26, 2008, 03:38:29 AM »

[However after reading the above posts about fund raising drives on another forum, I can't help myself but ask why do you care? Why rant on and on about how they do buisness? You didnt like the FF so you left and started your own-great now leave it at that. Why the mean spirited attacks on people that run that forum or choose to stay there?]

Interesting how this was put in context...mean spirited attacks? We have head those exact words before...coincidence?

If you had a friend, and he was being lied to, is it an attack to inform him of the lie, or the circumstances? If you consider having high ethical standards to be "mean spirited attack" on the admin of another forum, then you probably need to stick with them. We allow political debate here, part of the idea of expression of free speech, within limits, but if you can't handle a little truth, then the best thing to do is what I am guessing you came up with on your own.

[I'll probably stick to the FF just because it seems like a more freindly site and I havent' read any posts bashing any other forums.]

We know they have never said anything negative on the "other forum"....you called this the "other" forum when you joined...why is that?

I hate to break it to you, but honesty and integrity on this site mean more then a member count.

danweb · « **Reply #18 on:** November 26, 2008, 09:06:07 AM »

Kirk, A very good and honest reply. I appreciate your candor and explination. Your words and direction of scripture do certainly explain your desire to speak up. I am just a softie at heart . And sometimes that gets in the way of logic. I may have been dissapointed, but I still feel that this is a truly unique and special forum. I look forward to many opportunities to learn and to also share my opinions as well . And maybe in the long run have a positive and lifelong effect on someone else. I do hope everyone on here or who even passes by has a great Thanksgiving and most of all stays safe . Thank you...Dan

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2008, 09:11:22 AM »

Dan I appreciate your words and I to look forward to many opportunities to learn and share.

I also would like to wish everyone a Safe and Happy Thanksgiving

Oakiemac · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2008, 03:29:51 PM »

Ok let's back up to the very beginning. I simply introduced myself and said hello. Then came a whole string of posts about nasty grams, and fund raising issues on another site. Where did that come from? I made no mention of fund raising or nasty emails.

If your whole point is to warn me about some hidden danger, then thank you and point taken. Is this the standard greeting here? Joasis-your remark about can't handle the truth really irks me. What is the truth? Your word and only your word? I didn't ask anything about fund raising anywhere. If you see fit to give me the "truth" whether I asked for it or not then fine but dont tell me I can't handle the truth. I don't know what your high ethical standards are but if in fact they are high then I congradulate you. I too try to maintain the highest standards that I can. Simply making that statement doesnt mean that they are actually followed, only actions over time can attest to that. Don't misunderstand-I am not accusing you of anything just taking the wait and see approach.

Kirk- I should clarify. I used the phrase mean spirited not for anything that was said in the above posts by you or anyone else. It referred to other things said in a different thread on this forum. I probably should not of said it here though because it didn't really have anything to do with my Welcome post. Sorry about that.

I did NOT sign up to get into a pithing match with anyone. I have enough stress in my life I dont' need more. Right now I'm just having a hard time understanding all the negativity towards me and the forum that, apparently, a few of you love to hate. I signed up here with every intention of still being a part of the FF. I really like those guys and I really like that forum. I came here to possibly talk with Frank about MD sawmills and to talk about my disgust with our current political situation. I post on woodweb, woodnet, OWWM and a few others as well so I'm not tied to one forum. If only FF haters can post here then I guess this is my goodbye.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2008, 05:18:45 PM »

Steve, thanks for the input its appreciated. The nastry gram information and what followed it pertained to the answering of Mr. Moms comment. It was not in any way directed at you. You are correct, you made no mention of them nor has anyone implied you have. I suspect if I had broken my comments into two seperate posts we would not be having this dialog.

Why did it get shared? It tends to come up twice a year, about the same time of the fund drive on the other site. We get new sign ups, more visiters and then they want their membership deleted. It gets old, as does telling the truth about it. Some call the information mean spirited and when only one side is known I can understand that but in most cases, and this one specifically there is no mean spiritedness to it. What I posted was the very words used by the fund raisers. Cant get any more truthfull than that. I have hard copies of everything to back up every word I have written and learned long ago, if your going to right something down you better make sure it will hold up to legal scrutiny in a court room 10 years from now. My information does and will.

You do not owe me an apology. I appreciate it but its not necessary. Any and all input is appreciated and from that resolutions are achieved or simply agreements to disagree. No pithing mach from here.

If you read my posts carfully you will see that I do not have a problem with another forum. I have said time and time again there are some realy great people and some very close freinds on the forum. I also do not "hate" another forum or its owners etc. What I am disgusted with is the half truths and cry's for money that have gone on for years.

I still like that forum and the vast majority of the members but I will not associate with people who chose to tactfully raise money for a person who he himself helped organize the drive yet the general public is told he has nothing to do with it. Honesty means a lot and those actions are simply not honest.

Steve, if my posts are taken as hatred then I am sorry they gave you that impression. Disgust towards a very select few people yes, hatred, no. You are welcome to post and will not be edited, provided the diolag stays clean, and I know it will with you.

I apprecaite your wanting to talk to Frank. He is a stand up guy and one who also had enough of the lies. Currently Frank is taking care of his wife who had surgery so I am not sure when he will be back on line. I know he too had catarac surgery last week and the week before so provided he is not blind he will be back.

Now, on a positive note, I absolutly cant stand what is going on with our current president elect. I am in Illinois and this guy is simply not right for this country. I pray he proves me wrong. His actions in this state are enough to make me vomit and it scares the hell out of me to see what he is going to do in Washington. Oh, wait a minute, I guess this would be a negative note

joasis · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2008, 07:02:26 PM »

I guess I need to start the latest in the Obama debate....you need to drop in at the P&R on contractortalk.com Kirk...see what you are missing!

chaikwa · « **Reply #23 on:** November 28, 2008, 08:53:39 AM »

Wow, I didn't realize it was the FF that was occasionally being referred to here in this forum. While I realize THIS forum isn't reserved for FF haters, I must say that I am amongst those that have no use for that place. I accumulated a whopping total of 2 posts there, both of which were deleted. I admit they weren't sawmill related, but they were in the forum that anything can be posted in. I was trying to be friendly, no inappropriate words or phrases, just conversation. I PM'd the admin's for an explanation and received no reply. Thus MY take on that whole place is 'unfriendly', and I haven't been back. Kinda like the Woodmizer Company, but that's a whole 'nuther story!

Oakiemac, I'd be interested to know where-abouts in SW Michigan you are located. I'm in K'zoo and I've never seen a MD mill, but I'd love to!

chaikwa.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #24 on:** November 28, 2008, 06:37:35 PM »

Chaikwa, so there is no confusion, the Nasty Grams and comments above are related to that forum and any other mention of other forums are generalizations which may pertain to a number of them, not any one specific.

Sorry to hear you too were treated unfriendly on that site. At least you still have your money

News:

Author Topic: Hello from south west Michigan (Read 28738 times)