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Author Topic: Hola  (Read 29974 times)

Offline Buzz Sawyer

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Re: Hola
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2009, 10:45:06 AM »
Yea I imagine they are getting about ONE volt at the end on the line :D
Reason I was wondering was that I had a battle getting large enough line to prevent volt drop over a 400 foot run....can get expensive when ya wanna carry 200 amps!!!
I understand what your doin, any ac voltage will do if it is at least able to be rectified into 12vdc ;)
You could possibly get some odd voltage handling light bulbs in your house or something that runs an element like a toaster oven to use in the house off of the straight a/c?????

Offline caryr

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Re: Hola
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2009, 11:47:34 AM »
Reason I was wondering was that I had a battle getting large enough line to prevent volt drop over a 400 foot run....can get expensive when ya wanna carry 200 amps!!!

Harold has the correct wire size 20 A using 4 ga Cu can go a bit over 200 ft with a 2% voltage drop at 120V. At 240 you could drop to 6 ga Cu and go up to 25 A for the same distance and drop. I don't think I would try to send a continuous 200 A 400 ft unless I had access to higher voltages. Even stepping up to 480 V, which is easy and can still be done with normal wiring, would require on heck of a wire(s)!

Harold, I have some hydro links that I will try to scrounge up for you later.

Cary

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: Hola
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2009, 01:00:12 PM »

 Worked as a Power Co. Lineman for 12 years. Got a pretty good idea on wire capacity limits.  ;) ;D
 In VietNam, I had a request to put the NCO Club on 24 hour power. It was 687 feet (Paced off), from the 60KW generator, to the club. I did some serious cypherin, and figured we MIGHT get by with a huge cable.  Put the word out, and scored 650' of 500 MCM copper, sheathed. Ran it, by pulling with the jeep, and hooked it up. Voltage ran consistant at 111 volts.  ;D ;D ;D ;D  Man, did I impress the Brass. They thought I was KING of Power.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

  The neighbors figure, if the motor runs, that's good enough. Never mind they stick the grass in in short spurts, and it sounds like perpetual farting. Thuut, thuut, thuut.  ::) ::) ::) ::)  Sometimes, the motor even gets running so slow, I can't hear the noise from the knives cutting the air  ::) ::)

  No problem for me, EH ???  ;D ;D :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

  ANY water power info would be greatly appreciated, Caryr

  I am planning a 24V system, because the Alternator is 24V. Just figure to rectify at the power house, rather than down by the creek, with all the extremely wet conditions.

  Scored a UPC yesterday, that has a trigger switch, so it can be started on battery, rather than needing Grid current. Just have to pay shipping, + I will throw in a little extra, even though the unit was free. NOW, I can take a peek, and see how to rig up this self starter-activator. Then, I can run straight off the Alternator, from 65 v to 150V, and the UPS will put out 120V 60 cycles.

  I learned about cycles from taking over the Generator shop, in VietNam, and that is the only part I am having trouble figuring.

  According to what I can find on the 'net, Alternators put out in the hundreds of cycles, say 400, for example. NOW, how to get that changed to 60 cycles ???  Hoping the UPS will do that, without releasing the "Magic Smoke".  ::) ::) ::)  Battery juice doesn't matter, as long as it is whatever the UPS is rated for. I can rig up 6 Volt Batteries, in quad packs, for 24 volts, charge them at 24 V, and tap off in 6 or 12 volt increments, for UPS's, RV type DC appliances and whatever. CFL lighting, I don't think matters to much about cycles ???  Still need more searching, OR, a friendly Electrical Engineer, that won't tell me i'm crazy.   We already know that, EH ??? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

Offline caryr

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Re: Hola
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2009, 10:35:39 PM »
Hi Harold,

Here is one link http://www.hydro-turbines.com/index.html. Yes, he is trying to sell you stuff, but the foundation material is fairly good and it looks like good equipment. Here's another one from Europe http://www.esha.be/. Look in the publications section. Some of this may be applicable to you, but much of it is small in the MW range not the kW that most of us consider small. For some fun reading grab the two part "Guide on How to Develop a Small Hydropower Plant". Basic engineering and math may be required ;).

If you are connecting the batteries in series to charge with 24V you can not also then try to tap them in parallel to drive the 12V UPS input. You could tap for two UPSs, but then you have no easy way to lock them to the same frequency so you'd end up with smoke in one or both units. Probably better to find a heavy duty UPS that uses a 24 V battery stack. I'm guessing they do, but they may just stick to 12 V.

I didn't read exactly how you plan to implement this, but here is what I would do it from what I understand.

1. Use an efficient in stream mechanical system to pump water up to the holding pond. This runs 24/7/365 unless the pond is full.

2. Use the pond as your storage system, not batteries, but make sure the pond is strong! If possible I would try to store at least a days worth of energy in the pond.

3. Depending on demand draw water from the pond to charge the battery that drives the UPS. You could build a fancy control system based off the voltage level in the battery, the current draw and charging current that continuously adjust the water flow to charge the batter, but something as simple as the voltage is too low start charging (slowly open the valve), the charging current has dropped off and the voltage is high (slowly close the valve).

4. To drive 20 A at 120 V you are going to need something more than the average UPS. Thought to get things working and to see if it is going to work as expected cheap is a great way to go. The battery is there to provide the surge current and to keep the voltage available during low current needs. The alternator driven by water is there to provide the average current. Since you don't have a grid to feed into you may as well only use the water as needed.

As a side note. If you don't have to turn a normal incandescent light on and off they will last almost forever when they are always on, so if you want a night light don;t bother turning it off if you have the spare current to drive it.

Cary

Offline Buzz Sawyer

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Re: Hola
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2009, 06:02:52 PM »
 In VietNam, I had a request to put the NCO Club on 24 hour power.Man, did I impress the Brass. They thought I was KING of Power.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Harold ...didnt you tell me something about the secret location of underground (PUSHED in mud) power grid you built? I remember it was a secret power you held over the brass??? Or was it the babboon who liked choclate you got the upper hand on....Spanky was his name???

About cycles...it is the gauge of the wire and the numer of turns that decide voltage and cycles as I recall ........
I studied up to build a 120 volt alternator....high cycles like in a car alternator are good for welding and also keep batteries healthier, BUT as you know only motors with brushes or universal rating can run on high cycle...like drills, circular saws, vacumes etc.Jeeez I have some info on ALLL this let me take a peek and get back to ya ::)

One nice thing about modern alternators from car/truck, is that they kick in at an idle speed and give amps....(Many are well over 150amp!) also if you remove the rectifier it will put out 120 volts for better transmition (less drop) well I doubt any of this will help ya.....
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 06:19:31 PM by Buzz Sawyer »

Offline caryr

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Re: Hola
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2009, 06:33:31 PM »
Harold,

Make sure you check the basics on this before you start buying too much equipment. 24 GPM and only 6-7 ft of drop is not going to give you very much power.

Cary

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: Hola
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2009, 05:48:17 PM »

 Buzz, yer memory is golden.  ::) :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

  I plan to rectify at the batteries. Push the AC from the Alternator TO the battery area.

  Caryr, I have built one waterwheel. Put ½ cuts of 4" PVC with end caps, to make wide shallow buckets, 17 buckets in all, 22" dia. motorcycle wheel.  That will run 2 piston pumps, to shove water up the hill. IF this works as all my cypherin indicates, I will put a second one in. PLENTY of water to power the 2 wheels.

  Pond is calculated to hold 7000 gallons of water, and, I extended it, so figure 8500. A 4" PVC draln-overflow pipe will channel the water back downhill, to the Pelton Alternator. IF I run the water spill from the Alternator, back into the stream, I get to use that same water, in increased amount, over and over, ad-infinitum. 

  The 24 gallon, 6-7 feet drop, will run the pump wheels, might add a third, if need be. I figure this system can be upgraded 3-4 times what I have before I even touch the system.

  Might not seem clear writing, as, we just completed a 2 day 10 hours a day,  trip, in Busses, in Mountains, to San Jose and back.

  One day I will tackle the photo posting, and liven up the project.

  I plan on using a converter of some kind, to be able to draw 12 volts off any 2- 6volt batteries, to get my 12 volts. I know there are 24 volt inverters and UPS's out there, but, not down here, or, easy to find, anyway.

  Thanks for all the input, guys. I take it all in, and will report progress, in stages, so I don't let the Magic Smoke escape, EH ???  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Offline Buzz Sawyer

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Re: Hola
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2009, 03:54:01 PM »
Sounds good Harold, you should really get some juice when those big rains start helping the gravity, eh? Any hooo keep the shinny side up on those dang buses and the majic smoke INSIDE where it belongs! :D :D

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: Hola
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2009, 05:52:41 PM »

 Twice, I have been on the Bus when the inside back wheels came off the ground, in a curve, and chirped when they set back down on the road.  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

  There are stories galore, down here. Watching some of these fools trying to drive, just makes you want to stay home, altogether.

  Sure would like to watch some on hard packed snow roads, EH ???

Offline Buzz Sawyer

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Re: Hola
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2009, 06:30:25 PM »
Yea...southern drivers freak out with a little rain a few flakes of snow and....................EVERYTHING is wrecked and shut down..... :laugh: