Post by: Kirk Allen on October 27, 2013, 08:03:11 AM
I was surprised how many clear boards it yielded as most cherry I cut gives you 2-3 cuts on each face before the knots start showing.
Wish I would have snapped some photos as they were pretty boards!
400bf in an hour not to shabby either! I can remember charging by the hour in the beginning but now with some sawdust under my belt its been by the board foot for years. Make a lot more by the BF rate than an hourly rate.
Post by: HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader on October 27, 2013, 01:41:27 PM
What thickness ?
Post by: Kirk Allen on October 27, 2013, 01:45:47 PM
Post by: Post Oakie on November 05, 2013, 08:53:51 AM
While we're on the subject, I wish SOMEONE would give me a good reason why cutting by the board foot comes out better than cutting by the hour. It seems like the price should be structured so it works out the same. Is it the customer's perception of value?
Post by: Kirk Allen on November 05, 2013, 08:04:47 PM
Charging by the BF at 400 BF in an hour I made $140 instead of $75.
If I had a manual mill the average would be around 200 BF an hour and then I would let the customer pick the method of charge. Hourly or by the BF. They both work out about the same.
Post by: adk patroller on November 17, 2013, 08:01:24 PM
Post by: mountainlake on November 19, 2013, 07:11:42 AM
Post by: Kirk Allen on November 19, 2013, 11:12:00 AM
Post by: mountainlake on November 21, 2013, 06:20:28 AM
I do what's right... Steve
Post by: Post Oakie on November 21, 2013, 07:51:25 AM
If I was a customer I'd feel I got took if I paid $140 for I hour. These are $30000 band saws not D8 cats that cost $350000 and uses 20 gals a hour and charge around $200 a hour.. Steve
So, it is based on the customer's perception of value? Nothing wrong with that, I'm just trying to get a handle on it. Even though I usually charge by the hour, I often scale the output and report to the customer "this log cost you $.## per board foot to mill". When I bid by the job (only for decent size straight logs), I'll scale the logs using International 1/4" + 15%, and that gets me real close to what the band saw will do for 4/4 lumber. It depends on the job. I get a lot of oddball stuff that no one else wants to mess with. No way I could have done this job by the board ft! http://www.sawmillandtimberforum.com/index.php/topic,1268.new.html#new
Post by: Kirk Allen on November 21, 2013, 08:30:04 AM
I do what's right... Steve
As do I! Every customer I have is happy as hell when I am done cutting at $.35 cents a board foot! EVERY customer! Other mills in a 60 mile area from me charge $.40-$.50 cents a board foot.
If a guy has 400 BF of lumber in a log and he knows its going to cost $140.00 to cut it they don't care how long it takes to cut it. They just know they are getting a deal on lumber that cant be touched in any store in the area.
Post by: Stevem on November 21, 2013, 12:53:53 PM
As an example I just slabbed a 60" redwood for a customer and asked (and got) a price that what was double what I would normally charge for sawing boards out of a normal saw log. We cut (won't slab without help) about six nice slabs but ever one of them was worth over $1000 to the customer. I might have been able to double what I charged for the sawing but I would not have thought that was fair. He was happy and so was I.
If I had been cutting dimension lumber my price gets compared to Home Depot at some point. I can't cut 2" x 4" and be competitive but I can cut 3" x 7" and beat the hell out of them. I can cut boards out of "there" wood and be competitive.
Another example is I'm going to be cutting some white oak that came out of a park. The wood is going to make storm windows for a historic house that is also in the park. What's that worth? Winds up actually cheaper than buying traditional wood to make the windows.
If it's worth it to the customer you must ask a fair price and stick with it or get beat down where there is no profit. No profit is charity or a donation and I do that too. No profit also means no business and that doesn't turn out too well if you have any equipment to support regardless of it's cost.
It's better to not cut than to make an unhappy customer. It pays more.
Post by: Tom the Sawyer on November 23, 2013, 10:46:25 PM
I have always kept detailed records of the logs I have sawn, how long it took and what the yield was. Using p/bf rates I found that my financial productivity dropped significantly with certain types of logs, primarily those less than 12" in diameter or less than 6' long. The extra handling and clamping time increased considerably compared to the board footage produced - often to to the point that I would have been working for free.
Most of my milling is charged by the board foot. My hourly rate ($60) is only used for 'low productivity' situations - to reduce the liklihood of me working for free, or less. My history as a client of portable mills also led me to be more comfortable with p/bf pricing. I could measure the log and get a pretty close idea of how much it should cost, regardless of the style of mill or sawyer's efficiency.
When I do a site visit I explain the fees to the client and, if it is an hourly job (or part of it is), I explain why and the potential increased cost (on a per board foot comparison) of milling their logs. Most are surprised by how much I can get done in an hour of milling.
Last week I had a mobile job milling walnut. We milled for 8 hours (I hooked up in the dark) and produced over 1900 board feet with 1750 bf of that being 8/4 with widths to 23", much of it clear. Not counting travel, my fee was just under $700 (about $87 p/hr). What did the client get? His local woodworkers store/lumberyard has 4/4 walnut for $4.99 and 8/4 for $7.99 p/bf, + extra for wide widths. The retail value of his lumber would be almost $15,000. Of course, he'll have to wait for it to dry and he may cull a few boards but even at $2 per board foot, hiring a portable sawmill to salvage his logs was a very good investment!