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Author Topic: how to cut timbers out of a log  (Read 20048 times)

Offline snakeknuckles

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how to cut timbers out of a log
« on: February 17, 2010, 05:25:41 PM »
I have a recently restored Frick00 circle mill w/52" blade. I  have run it enough to know how it behaves (and misbehaves).. I think. I am planning to saw a barn (70' x 36') this summer and am starting to collect trees from various sources. I have made a detailed plan of the barn on acad and have generated a material list. I need to saw 8x8s, 8x12s, 8x16s, 2x12s, 4x6s,2x6s among others. I have sorted my list by length requirement. My average log diameter seems to be 24". I would like to be able to estimate the number of logs I will need for the project? Should I use total cross sectional area w/ a waste factor to calculate the number of logs for a given length? Can I cut 4 8x8s out of a single log (8x8s are the posts) or should I cut one 8x8 out of the core of the log and slab out the rest into other sizes? Am I asking too many questions? Thanks

Offline snakeknuckles

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 05:42:31 AM »
p.s. I took a 24" circle and hypothetically cut it into various parts accounting for a 1/4" curf, discarding the cull pieces and tallying up the total c.s. area of lumber generated. I got about 80% for the ratio of timber c.s.a./24" circle csa. with that factor I calculate I need a total of 65 logs. That is my starting point. I can't wait till the snow melts to start sawing!

Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 07:35:53 AM »
Welcome to the forum snakeknuckles!

I cut my large stock from the heart of the log while using the outer portion for the smaller 2x material I know I am going to need.  I have tried to cut 8x8 stuff right off the bat (not heart wood) and when those suckers sat for a while the bowing began. 

If you keep your heart centered it minimizes this problem when it comes to the large stock.  I have cut multiple Rail Road ties from one log but I am betting those outer ties bowed quite a bit if they sat very long before getting treated.   Our tie plant requires all heart wood or no heart wood.  I only had a few logs I tried that with and its more of a pain so I now stick to heart wood only for my big stock. 

Where are you located?  Cutting this out of hardwood I assume?
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Offline Stevem

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2010, 08:19:20 PM »
Welcome to our little corner of the world snakeknuckles .  Disclaimer:  Any advice given comes with no waranty but is the best we know.  There is a lot we don't know!  However, the price is right.

Hard wood or soft wood?  Full dimension or nominal? 

Circles are great but they assume the tree is a perfect cylinder.  Allow extra trees or diameter for loss from bows, sweeps and other defect.  What ever you cut will be better than anything you can buy.

If I were cutting conifer I'd pick my biggest and nicest logs to cut the 16"s.  And I'd cut them pretty close to first.  And I'd cut them free of heart center (FHOC)  If a timber has heart center in it, it will crack.  2" out of the center and side boards. Fall back to 1" to maximize yield.  The reason they box the heart in timbers and railroad ties is to lessen warp and twist,  but they are going to crack. 

For a real quick SWAG of what you'd need, calculate the total board footage needed for the structure and use that against gross log scale.  You should have at least a 20% over run but that depends on the amount of taper in the logs and defect.  Cutting just certain sizes is sometimes wasteful of a log.  Example: On smaller logs I like to open a log with a 4" face to maximize yield but 1 x 4's aren't on your cut list.
If I'm cutting 2" dimension wood and opened a 6" face on the next cut I might find it has a 2", 3" or a 4" board after the 2 x 6.  With specific sizes required you get into a step function situation.

Sounds to me like Kirk knows about cutting 8 x 8's
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 08:29:09 PM by Stevem »
Stevem
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Offline POC

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2010, 09:46:49 PM »
I want a book with all this stuff in it...you guys know of one?

Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2010, 10:38:50 PM »
Your reading it  ;D
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Offline Carl Middleton

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2010, 06:06:10 AM »
Theres a big difference between book learning and experience

Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2010, 12:46:09 PM »

 Doing the sunken log deal, I always thought to go to a Truss Plant, and try to buy a few of the biggest square punched out plates they use for connecting truss pieces. END COAT the beams, and drive those plates in on the ends, to hold splitting to a minimum. Square up the ends when ready for use.  ??? ::) ;D

  Same system used on RR ties, only slightly different, EH ???

Offline POC

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2010, 11:10:46 PM »
I can read a book and learn a lot.  That's just the way I learn.  Now I learn by trial and error too, but I have to have a place to start.
I've never ran a mill in my life.  I need SOMETHING to give me a frame of reference, a place to start, so I can at least ask intelligent questions.
I'm scared to death of cutting my first log.  Not that I'll hurt something, but I don't know what to start off with.  I guess it depends on what I want out of the log?  If I "open a face" [I learned that on a forum] that is 4" wide, do I have to cut the whole log as 4" boards? I guess I can cut some different boards in the vertical plane.
I guess after a while, you just look at a log and *see* the lumber?  ???

Offline Kirk Allen

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 08:14:10 AM »
Woodmizer has the DVD set that covers just about everything you need to know.  I wish I had it when I got started but even so, there is still plenty to learn from it. 
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Offline Stevem

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2010, 11:39:24 AM »
Here' a link that might help you:

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fplrp355.pdf

and this one

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrn/fplrn98.pdf

lots of good stuff on this site.
Stevem
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Offline POC

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 01:43:08 PM »
I'll check WM site.

Thanks Steve, I'll look at those links too.

Offline snakeknuckles

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 06:24:32 AM »
Wow! This is an awesome site. Thank you all for your input! I live in Potomac MD but my saw is at the place I want to be in Sabillasville, MD in a place called Eylers Valley. (Check out www.johneylerfarmstead.com) Right now we are blanketed by about two feet of snow so I don't expect to start sawing any time soon. I am finding  trees however. There is a site right around the corner here in Potomac that they are clearing for some mansions and I am hoping for 12-15 white oaks out from there. I scored a huge cache of poplar from another tree man. I am planning to saw all my poplar into 5/4 for siding. I hope that most of the timbers will be red or white oak. My design is for all posts to be 8x8s, and I concur that these should be heart-cut. The girder beams for the main floor are to be 8x16s. I am not sure how to center these cuts. My top plates are to be 8x12s. Floor joists 2x12s, truss members are 4x6s. The basement post grid is 12'x14' so that all beams will lap-joint into the posts (carriage bolted). Field stone will be used to make front and side walls of basement as it will be a bank barn. Upstairs will be clear space with trusses spanning 36'. Trusses are queen post design: lap-joint with gusset plates (fabricated). I intend to make the bottom chord out of (2) 2x6s sandwiching a continuous 1/8" flitch plate. Roof will be skip sheathing 2x6s. All material will be full dimension, undressed except for the lapjoint ends. (Main floor will be 2x dressed one side (I have an old crescent 18" planer) I will use penetreat and cobra rods to treat ends. Thanks again for all the comments.

Offline Stevem

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2010, 12:11:18 AM »
What a Cobra rods?
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Offline snakeknuckles

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2010, 05:45:04 AM »
They are a like impel rods etc-borate and copper to resist rot. They use them in the utility poles.

http://www.westernloghomesupply.com/what-is-the-difference-between-cobra-rods-and-impel-rods-log-cabins-home-wood-rot-insecticide-pestic.html

Offline snakeknuckles

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2010, 03:41:18 PM »
Just to update the project: I am reaping the benefits of the bad weather here in MD. Yesterday I got a friend of mine to help me make off w/  5 sticks of pretty decent 24" red oak that had come down on the side of the road and would probably have ended up as mulch... I have an old water utility dump truck with tag-along and mini-ex w/thumb which is capable of loading some pretty big stuff. We showed up w plenty of orange traffic cones and reflector vests. My friend even had a shiny hard hat! I don't think anyone suspected we were pirates. Coincidently I have a contact with the Road department who said he will let me know when contractors are ready to clear any other fallen oaks from the ROWs. If I show up in time they will not cut them up and instead load on my rig. Whoopee! As soon as the snow melts I will be sawing. In the meantime does anybody have a good idea for an infeed log table design? I will post a question on the circle mill forum...

Offline Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner"

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Re: how to cut timbers out of a log
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 09:37:13 AM »
For your timbers, I would suggest that you not have any heart in the timber.  You will find that there is a great deal less in twisting, checking and general d grade in the finished product.