Baby mill reccomendations??

[A.O.]

I'm looking for a small band sawmill, new or used in great shape. seems like there's 289,478,638 of them on the market and for someone with no experience its a bit daunting! I own and live on 100 acres in South Carolina that at some time in the past was planted with loblolly pines. The majority of them are maybe 6-8' DBH. but I also have lots in the 16-20" range. So I'm thinking there be lumber in them woods!

So I'm thinking a small manual mill and am hoping to spend around $2500-3000. Been looking at the Hudson Sawyer and the Woodland mills HM122 and HM126 (which is way at the top of the budget!) I can get the Sawyer for $2195 delivered, the HM122 is closer to $2500, and the HM126 gets up to about $3400 with shipping! Also I can get the HM122, with a pack of 5 extra blades and a 6'bed extension delivered for about $2900. There is also the Frontier OS27 but its at $3195 + shipping so I don't think I can get there.

I also have a line on a Timbery M100 used with the upgraded 9hp engine at $3000 which seems high but its also asking price.

I do have a Small Kubota tractor with which to move and load logs if they are not to big, put it to the test a couple days ago



Practiced getting logs





And a place to rest!



So any suggestions on small mills? Things to look out for?

[Ox]

I know one thing - the one single thing every sawmill owner seems to always want is more power.  I would suggest getting the largest engine available in your budget.

For what it's worth I guess the Woodland mills are getting pretty good reviews.  Owners seem happy with the value for money and the customer care after the sale appears to be good from what I've read.

Hudson mills seem to be kind of bottom line mills but people who own them seem to like them.  I think you'll see this being the majority - most people like the mill they own but wish there was at least one thing different about them.

As for me, I built my mill from scratch following blueprints/plans from Linn Lumber for their model 1900 with wide throat.  I can saw just under 36" wide if needed with a 13 hp Predator engine.  This engine does it pretty good but I would like more, as always.  More power means faster and straighter cuts because you want the blade speed to stay the same.  Smaller engines can't keep the blade at the same speed without lugging which might cause your blade to wander some.  Plus with these smaller engines you'll need to go slower in the cut which is more like the blade scraping the wood instead of actually taking a small curl from the wood (like a hand plane).  The latter is how it's supposed to work.  It'll make the blade actually last longer if you can feed it properly.

I would look for the strongest frame and biggest engine and fastest/easiest to use clamps and backstops.  I would also not want my mill sitting on the ground.  You have a loader for loading logs, pick that mill frame up to around your waist height or so.  Then you won't be bent over all the time.

These very few suggestions will get you started.  Hopefully others will pitch in with what they would look for in a mill.

If you have a chance to buy a used EZ Boardwalk mill I have good information from a sawmill guru and others that they're basically the best with strength, easy to use, design concepts and value for money.  It's what I would buy if I had to do it all over again.

Keep us posted what you do!  We enjoy living the experience over again and others new to the sawmill world will read your story and learn from what you're doing.  And don't forget pics.  Pics rock in the forum world...

[A.O.]

Thanks Ox, some good pointers there..

And I posted pictures!! Do they not show up?

[drobertson]

A. O,  yoo aye!  I've been wondering just where down there you are?  My brother has recently or rather in process of establishing a homestead in Kershaw county, just outside Camden,  anyway, if it were me, and I'm really leaning to another mill since selling my 40 super,  I would really give them all a look, and to be more specific, what engines come with each.. in that price range, they will all be close to the same, and the ones you mentioned as others have are in the hat,  I did not hear or I missed, the EZ boardwalk, they are solid, the others too, each one has their own bonus points,  I've pushed all but the Woodlands mill by hand, and Timbery and Norwood are close cousins, they roll good, Wmz, they do as well, I just have some reservations as to their current bigger industrial growth as it might pertain to personal attention when problems occur,, I'm thinking the EZ's would fit the bill bout as good as any, if not better,, I've seen them saw, I like them, and I would not necessarily call them babies, just manuals,,

[Ox]

A.O. - Yes, your pictures showed up.  I was just giving a friendly suggestion to keep us posted, with pictures, of your future endeavors is all... lol

[A.O.]

A. O,  yoo aye!  I've been wondering just where down there you are?  My brother has recently or rather in process of establishing a homestead in Kershaw county, just outside Camden,  anyway, if it were me, and I'm really leaning to another mill since selling my 40 super,  I would really give them all a look, and to be more specific, what engines come with each.. in that price range, they will all be close to the same, and the ones you mentioned as others have are in the hat,  I did not hear or I missed, the EZ boardwalk, they are solid, the others too, each one has their own bonus points,  I've pushed all but the Woodlands mill by hand, and Timbery and Norwood are close cousins, they roll good, Wmz, they do as well, I just have some reservations as to their current bigger industrial growth as it might pertain to personal attention when problems occur,, I'm thinking the EZ's would fit the bill bout as good as any, if not better,, I've seen them saw, I like them, and I would not necessarily call them babies, just manuals,,

KERSHAW COUNTY?? Just outside Camden?? My neighborhood for sure, I am the last property in northern Kershaw county on my road, about 20 minutes north of Camden.

Yeah, looking at all I can find in my price range..

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

Please don't buy a Hudson.

 I just lost a nearly full page reply explaining why and what I would suggest. Maybe by tomorrow I will be calmed down enough to rewrite the reply.

 Boy am I pissed !!!!!!!!!!!

[Cutting Edge Saw Svc.]

There is also the Frontier OS27 but its at $3195 + shipping so I don't think I can get there.

I'd wait until you can get there.  If an EZ Boardwalk Jr. is out of your price range, IMO, the Frontier would be your best choice of the ones listed.

Why? The Frontier has roller guides, plain and simple. 

The others listed all either use steel blocks or ceramic pads, which provide NO support for the blade in the cut.  In fact, those guide systems are detrimental to blade life due to abrasion, heat, etc.  Not to mention the problems of wavy cuts and poor quality lumber.  Might be fine for resaws, but ain't worth a plug nickel and have no place on a band headrig with ever-changing cut widths, varying feed rates and relatively low HP.

Trying to save a few dollars now will only cost you more in the long run in several aspects.  Frustration and time probably being at the top of the list. 

Best of luck with your search

[drobertson]

AO, looks like you have some meat to chew on for sure,, back to the Kershaw, county, brother steve is a few miles east off 601, north of camden bout 6 miles or so,  anyway good luck in your search,,take some time and choose wisely, like mentioned, time and frustrations cost more than you might think,,them pines aren't going anywhere soon all around you,,

[mountainlake]

  I'm no fan of the sandwich type guide either, or the  roller bearing guide that use just small roller bearings that turn to fast. I like the guides on my TK mill which are 3" flanged guide that turn slower and don't bend the blade as much when applying down pressure as 2" guide wheel do.  If I was building a mill and didn't want to spend a lot of money on guides I would try using 2 6208 bearings ( a little over 3" od) to apply down pressure and at least a 2" bearing behind the blade to keep it from going back too far.  That back bearing should be adjusted at least 1/4" behind the blade to keep blades from breaking to soon, most times when cutting the blade wont even hit the back bearing until dull , then its time to change the blade.  It's a nice balmy -7 f here right now and I have a saw job, but it should be +8 by 9 am Steve

[HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader]

Yes, definitely roller guides. I used Cooks Guides on 2 different machines.  Bearings are easy to change and over greasing to not allow water to ingress from blade lube makes for longer life.

 I don't favor 4 post mills because of access to log during blade break, crumpling. I like Linn Lumber and WoodMizer open design. Maybe other brands I'm not familiar with. Linn lumber uses off the shelf parts, easy to get when needed, locally. For a complete new sawyer, that's the way I would go. You don't necessarily need factory assistance unless you have electronics. There are many qualified with experience right on here if you have a problem. Get a local welder, unless you are one, to build the angle iron track. No shipping involved and get that sucker up off the ground. Make it thigh high with good solid supports. Buy your own engine new or used to get started and bolt it to the head and off you go.

 If you can find a sawyer, surely, in your area, I would advise a visit for a day.

[A.O.]

I'd wait until you can get there.  If an EZ Boardwalk Jr. is out of your price range, IMO, the Frontier would be your best choice of the ones listed.

Why? The Frontier has roller guides, plain and simple. 

The others listed all either use steel blocks or ceramic pads, which provide NO support for the blade in the cut.  In fact, those guide systems are detrimental to blade life due to abrasion, heat, etc.  Not to mention the problems of wavy cuts and poor quality lumber.  Might be fine for resaws, but ain't worth a plug nickel and have no place on a band headrig with ever-changing cut widths, varying feed rates and relatively low HP.

Trying to save a few dollars now will only cost you more in the long run in several aspects.  Frustration and time probably being at the top of the list. 

Best of luck with your search

I'm not arguing your point here, its well taken, however, I started this journey hoping to spend $1500-2000 max, and all of a sudden I'm at $3600 for the basic mill to start. I'm definitely thinking I'll need a bed extension also so I can cut rafters if I were to build anything... 10 foot won't get it done . And I know I can always add that later once I actually learn to use this thing (which ever I buy).
So good chance I'm going to have to forgo some things to get this done... part of my decision here is going to be what I'm going to have to give up to start.
I was really leaning towards the Woodland Mills HM122, plus a 5 pack of blades and the bed extension. I can get that here for just under that 3 grand mark delivered. But the more I read and talk to you guys I'm thinking if nothing else, try to go for the larger power plant, get the bed extension later. But I'll still have to start with extra blades, cause if I break one I'm out of a saw.

So the journey continues.......

[A.O.]

AO, looks like you have some meat to chew on for sure,, back to the Kershaw, county, brother steve is a few miles east off 601, north of camden bout 6 miles or so,  anyway good luck in your search,,take some time and choose wisely, like mentioned, time and frustrations cost more than you might think,,them pines aren't going anywhere soon all around you,,

So your brother is pretty close to me, where are you located? And are you coming to visit?

And those pines aren't going any where, but I'm not getting any younger either..

I still need to find out how long after I mill this stuff up it'll be useable. Obviously just stickered and air dried to start.

[A.O.]

  I'm no fan of the sandwich type guide either, or the  roller bearing guide that use just small roller bearings that turn to fast. I like the guides on my TK mill which are 3" flanged guide that turn slower and don't bend the blade as much when applying down pressure as 2" guide wheel do.  If I was building a mill and didn't want to spend a lot of money on guides I would try using 2 6208 bearings ( a little over 3" od) to apply down pressure and at least a 2" bearing behind the blade to keep it from going back too far.  That back bearing should be adjusted at least 1/4" behind the blade to keep blades from breaking to soon, most times when cutting the blade wont even hit the back bearing until dull , then its time to change the blade.  It's a nice balmy -7 f here right now and I have a saw job, but it should be +8 by 9 am Steve

And how much do you have invested in your TK mill??  :-)

[A.O.]

Yes, definitely roller guides. I used Cooks Guides on 2 different machines.  Bearings are easy to change and over greasing to not allow water to ingress from blade lube makes for longer life.

 I don't favor 4 post mills because of access to log during blade break, crumpling. I like Linn Lumber and WoodMizer open design. Maybe other brands I'm not familiar with. Linn lumber uses off the shelf parts, easy to get when needed, locally. For a complete new sawyer, that's the way I would go. You don't necessarily need factory assistance unless you have electronics. There are many qualified with experience right on here if you have a problem. Get a local welder, unless you are one, to build the angle iron track. No shipping involved and get that sucker up off the ground. Make it thigh high with good solid supports. Buy your own engine new or used to get started and bolt it to the head and off you go.

 If you can find a sawyer, surely, in your area, I would advise a visit for a day.

"If you can find a sawyer, surely, in your area, I would advise a visit for a day." So, there is a sawyer about an hour south of me with a Timbery M100 mill he is selling, going down there after the first of the year to have a look and try it out. He has 2 mills and I selling the smaller one...

[Cutting Edge Saw Svc.]

... plus a 5 pack of blades and the bed extension. ... But I'll still have to start with extra blades, cause if I break one I'm out of a saw.

So the journey continues.......

Don't expect much from the blades they provide (either company).  Wrong hook angle for the engine HP for starters, but it goes further than that. 

Roller guides still are at the top of the list.  The BLADE is the most important part of ANY sawmill.  Everything else is there to provide support and power to the blade through the material being sawn.

1.  Can you make "boards" with a sandwich guide system, Yes. 

2.  Can you produce "lumber" that falls within what many consider a dimensionally accurate and usable product for your application, Maybe.

3.  Will  it meet your expectations... that is something only you can answer.


Don't fall for a "sales pitch", new or used.  Sounds like you're watching your budget close, but make sure you invest your money wisely.  Don't worry about those logs for the time being.  Get them up off the ground until you decide on a machine to process them.

[Ox]

These guys are giving you very good and very wise information.  I have nothing else to add for now because I'm positive these guys have much more board footage under their belts than I do.  I can offer a new guy a few pointers to get going but I think I'll stop there.  Then all I can offer is my experiences and how I do things.  I made a sawmill.  I make decent lumber.  I build stuff with it.  Simple and effective!  But I would never do it again.  I'd buy one, even if it meant I had to wait another year to save up for it.

I'm wondering, however, if maybe your sawmill purchase might be better off waiting a little while until you have more money in your sawmill budget.  The last thing you want to do is get something trashy and that will make you regret it every time you use it.  This isn't an emergency, right?  Maybe add to your budget and at the same time look for sawmills within your budget.  If and when you find one, maybe run it past the fellers here and see what the opinion is on that particular mill.  If you're handy with mechanical aptitude and don't mind messing around for a while to bring a neglected mill back to life, this might be a good way to get a better mill at a lower cost.  Instead of cash only, some of your investment will be in sweat equity.                                     

The total knowledge here at this forum is a very real and very powerful tool for you and they/we don't mind sharing it to help people. 

[Stevem]

Trying to save a few dollars now will only cost you more in the long run in several aspects.  Frustration and time probably being at the top of the list. 

Heed those words.  I bought too much based on price.  Should have stretched a bit more, waited a bit longer and opted for fewer bells and whistles to buy a bigger mill.

[furu]

There are lots of good words and advise being offered.  My wife and I have always considered large purchases (and many small ones as well) as investments in the future.  Sometimes the investment is in longevity, sometimes frustration or more importantly the lack thereof, sometimes it is in time saved.  I could go on and on with that concept.  We tend to always try to buy the best that we can foresee needing within the time that we foresee the item lasting.  It has worked well whether it be a computer which we don't have to replace very often or automobiles.   We don't have a vehicle that is less than 11 years old, our heavy duty truck, our next is 21 years old and the oldest is 38 years old.  All are still going strong.  The saying is "I will keep it until it dies or I die which ever comes first" and I mean it with my cars.

As an example buying a higher end computer that will serve your needs for 10 years at price 2X dollars versus buying a computer that is barely going to work for your needs now and having to replace it after 3 years for X dollars.  Repeat this several times and you have either spent much more money or saved a lot of money versus the alternative action. 
Buying a sawmill can be analogized the same.   Buying a bit more mill can make your life using it more pleasant with fewer headaches, fewer regrets, and avoid the old: "I wish the mill had .....(fill in the blank).... and if I could only do it over again."  Now you have to figure out how to sell what you got without taking a bath and then find and buy bigger and better and start the process over again.  Getting good roller guides can save the cost on blade wear and breakage that saves far more than the cost of the roller guides themselves.  Blades are not that expensive until you start looking at how many you can go through and then they start to mount up.

As has been posted above.  I know you are working very hard to determine what mill fits your needs as you see them right now.  Maybe take a little more time time to save up a bit more money for the purchase and see what other mill might come into the equation.  As an alternative look at what mills might give you what you need/want to have and calculated out how long you have to save up the additional money to be able to afford that mill.

I know there are folks who buy a different mill by upgrading the one they have mulitple times before they finally settle on the final mill.  That may work if they don't really know what the final need is and it is a shifting target or if their business is growing so rapidly that their needs are expanding faster than they ever thought would happen.  Other folks buy their mill and keep it for a long time and have over 13000 hours on it and are still very satisfied with what they have.

I guess it depends on the type of person you are.  Do you buy a car and upgrade it for the next new model in two years or are you the type that buys a car and keeps it forever.  Instant gratification of getting a mill today versus delaying the gratification a bit longer and getting a bit more mill may be worth it to you.  If used ask the sellers why they are selling the mill.  If they say it does not do all they wanted it to do may give you an idea that the same may happen to you.

Finally when we started looking at a mill my wife said to me the following.  "You are not getting any younger take that into consideration.  Do you need to be walking back and forth that many times as you get older" (Stationary head vs walking) "and are you going to be able to manhandle the logs that much as you get older" (manual vs hydraulics). I know those considerations involve much more expensive and larger mills than you are looking at but try to take all things into consideration and evaluate how they effect you and your needs.  As was pointed out in an earlier post, a used mill even one that needs a lot of TLC may give you more and suit your needs down the road better.

[A.O.]

Thanks for all the replies, trust me I am reading all of them.

Cuttingedge.. Those logs are up on 4x4's.. should I move them higher? And I hear you are the guy for blades, what kind of price are we looking at for say a 5 pack for one of those smaller mills I'm looking at? And do you have a website?

Furu.. your needs (or ideas) and mine are a bit different I think. Yes I've always bought my tools with your line of thinking, buy the best you can afford, especially if you use them for your profession! Makes all the sense in the world.
  And yes, I will do the same here, but, this saw is for personal use for small stuff around the farm, my house is already built, I'm NOT going into business... I'm retired and want to stay that way!!!  ;-)
  So this mill will see marginal use on occasion, mostly to saw lumber for projects around here. I wont have a business that I'm trying to keep up with, or need to upgrade consistently (I hope!!) I'm just looking for a mill that will serve me in that regard, and not fall apart next month.

 So.. Yes, while I want to buy a decent mill, I also don't want to overspend on one either and I'm looking for that spot in-between, if there is one!! ;-)

Oh, and I just sold my last truck of 14 years, repairs would have been more than it was worth, my Harley is 10 years old and not going anywhere soon. Yes, I have friends that change their cars and bikes like underwear, me, not so much!

Again I DO appreciate ALL the comments, suggestions, and advice so keep it coming everybody!

Just wait till I actually get a mill, and need advice on how to run it and all the things associated with it.. boy are you guys in trouble!! HAHAHA!!

THANKS!!

[Cutting Edge Saw Svc.]

A.O.,

Contact info is listed in my "signature".  PM Sent.

I couldn't tell by the pics how large your blocking was under the logs... kinda looked like 2x4.  What you have will probably be sifficient.  The fact that they are up off the ground is the most important thing.

[A.O.]

A.O.,

Contact info is listed in my "signature".  PM Sent.

I couldn't tell by the pics how large your blocking was under the logs... kinda looked like 2x4.  What you have will probably be sifficient.  The fact that they are up off the ground is the most important thing.

Thanks, replied to your PM
Been working with wood a long time. Lumber and firewood , now another step.

[furu]

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at.  Maybe my on-line writing skills did not translate clearly to what I was trying to say.

I'm just looking for a mill that will serve me in that regard, and not fall apart next month.
 So.. Yes, while I want to buy a decent mill, I also don't want to overspend on one either and I'm looking for that spot in-between, if there is one!! ;-)

That is all I was trying to say.  Make certain you know what your needs are and don't buy something less/settle and regret it later. If you can wait and thus save up a little more you can possible afford a mill with roller guides instead of a sandwich guide system.

There certainly is that spot in-between that you are looking for.

[A.O.]

There certainly is that spot in-between that you are looking for.

But not with roller guides me thinks.

[drobertson]

A. O. I don't know you from beans, but this does not matter,. the fact is and it's a fact, that, and you know,  you get what you pay for, (unless its given to you).  I have to say with milling logs, and I'm speaking from using a LT 40 super, its just a whole lot of work,, I can not even think how I could have done what I've done, without the hydraulics, and I still tore my back up.. manual will be slow, get that in your mind and be ready for it.  And depending on the mill you decide on?  get ready for other issues as well. I do believe this is what spurs folks into building their own, and it's still not quite what they were thinking,, just a guess,.  Logging, skidding, stacking , dragging, loading, not to mention the scraps that come off, sir,, its a bonified challenge,  it's worth it if you dont' have rose colored glasses on,, just saying,  hope the best for you, I know there is more pine there in that area than you will ever see get to the mill.