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Author Topic: Sticker shock  (Read 10270 times)

Offline starmac

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Sticker shock
« on: February 14, 2019, 11:33:56 AM »
I went to the lowes yesterday and wanted to get just some plain old 1X8's to build a quick and dirty shelf, WOW.
Whem we barged my truck and stuff back out of Icy bay last summer, I went to the coast and got my log truck, but my pickup and mill and other stuff I put in storage. I think it will be a priority, come breakup to go get it. lol

Offline furu

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 12:36:30 PM »
Just a guess but about $6.50 a linear foot for 1x8's? 
When you consider the markup that has to have been applied I am curious as to how close I am in the guess.
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Offline starmac

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 06:04:55 PM »
Some may have been that high, but the cheapest was 21 bucks for an 8 footer, that I saw at least.

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2019, 06:46:39 AM »
Lumber at the sawmill level has not kept up with price increases,  much like dairy production, the middleman makes the money. Frank C.

Offline Ox

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2019, 07:43:11 AM »
I've heard that all my life:  the middle man gets all the money.  Only problem is, how does one know where the middle is and how does one get there?  And if one is truthful to a fault can he/she even be a middle man?  It seems there's lots of lies and deceit that goes along with making big money...I really don't want any part of it if this is what it means.
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1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Offline starmac

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2019, 12:24:15 PM »
Our local sawmill is also a retail full service retail lumber yard. They used to do much of their own logging too, but started contracting out the logging pretty much completely 3 years ago.
They import and sell  lots of lumber, insulation, roofing products,etc., but also sell their own lumber. All of their own lumber is air dried and rough cut is how most of it is sold, dunnage for the oilfield and other industries, is one of their main products, but they also plane  and even make their own tongue and groove. As of last year they also put in a pallet building facility and a 3 sided planed log mill.
They use the whole log, firewood is also one of their HUGE sellers, when we contract log for them, they want the whole logdown to 6 inch tops, butt flare, rot ctooks and all, what is not suitable for lumber goes to firewood, which they sell mountains of.
 Their price on surfaced, air dried 1X8 spruce is 84 cents a LN. rough cut is 78 cents.

Here is their complete price list, https://northlandwood.com/ none of the lumber they produce themselves has any middlemen, unless you count the contract loggers. The business is Family and employee owned.

Even though I haul raw logs to their mill and the yard is on the same property as the mill, (I drive/weave through it to unload, I for some reason do not think about them when I need to buy something.  Braindead I guess. lol

Offline bandmiller2

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2019, 02:36:23 PM »
Us small time millers need to find a nitch that the big fellas aren't interested in. For example use your own lumber to build backyard tool houses or special dimensions for furniture makers. Anyone who is wealthy usually have made their money on the backs of working folks. Frank C.

Offline starmac

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2019, 03:41:57 PM »
Band miller, that has been my thinking too, garden or storage sheds can be knocked together in a day or so, and you get a lot more money for your lumber, it seems like for a lot of us, it makes more sense than volume. This would of course vary from place to place, but about everywhere has some things that could work.

The original owners of our mill are pretty well heeled, I suspect they made it mostly themselves, cause they are TIGHT with a penny in some ways, the wages they pay kind of sucks, but to their credit they have a pretty good profit sharing plan, and all those that have worked for them for years have a substantial ownership in the company. Some have been there over 30 years.
The original owners are in their mid 80's, but it is my understanding that everything is set up for it to continue on without them, once they are gone.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2019, 05:50:12 PM »
Used to have people accuse me of over charging for lumber. That's because back then I was new and wanted newer prices . All those small mills are gone now. Sometimes I am over priced on certain items.  Also have lumber to sell cheap that is in my way. Today and yesterday I am sawing 2" walnut and not edging it. Putting it on sticks to go thru march twice and then for sale. One third of these are already splitting down the middle, others are not that pretty. These are all 8' long and 12 to 18" wide. One third of the good ones will bring $100.00+. The old timers[all gone] would have me tarred and feathered and dragged through town for charging this much.  For many years my sawmill just broke even. Now I am making a little $ and most of it on repeat customers.   If my wife had not worked a gov. job there would be no sawmill here. Don't judge some ones business practices  unless you have walked in there shoes.

Offline starmac

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2019, 06:20:25 PM »
I hear you moodnacreek. I see people chargeing less than wages sometimes, and they are furnishing the mill gas and everything it takes to run it, I have always worked for myself and like it, but I can't see working and wearing out my junk for wages.
I know wages varies depending on what part of the country a guy is in, and so would what a guy can charge, but mills, parts, tools vehicles and so are on are fixed expenses that have to be accounted for before wages come into play.

Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2019, 07:25:34 PM »
This time of the year, the weather may keep you inside a lot but there are benefits.  Sure, you can get all your blades set and sharpened, then what?  It is a good time to evaluate your income and expenses for the previous year. 

Go through your costs like mill payments (or replacement funding), insurance, fuel, maintenance, blades, support equipment, rent, and employee costs (if you have them).  Divide that number by the number of board feet produced (or hours worked if you don't track bf production), and you should have the basis for setting what your costs of production are.  Then you can add in what you want to pay yourself, and come up with what your rates should be.  If you sell lumber, add in the costs of log acquisition (if you use your own logs, what would it cost to buy similar logs?).

What if the guy down the road sells or works for a lower price?  Well, you know what it costs for you to operate so cutting your price means working for less, or finding ways to reduce your costs.  Cutting costs should not mean cutting corners; paying employees in cash, going without insurance, etc. is a recipe for disaster, even if you don't go broke.
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Offline HaroldCR - AKA Fla.-Deadheader

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2019, 07:03:31 AM »
We were set up near the road with our sinker log recovery/sawing business. Occasionally,someone would stop and ask about sawing their logs. A few thought we were on the high side with our prices. We didn't want to saw for others, anyway.

 One guy said he could get his done by Burt ?,so, I said go for it  A few days later he is back. Said Burt cut his logs, but, the lumber was not as nice as ours. I said, you get what you pay for. He had more logs he wanted cut into 2X with live edge. Gave him the same price as before. He figured to get half price because of less cuts needed. Told him to call Burt.  :)

 Next day here comes another guy that watched us saw and asked lots of questions . Turned out to be Burt. He wanted to know if we would help set his mill up to saw like ours.

 Turns out he would buy new blades, saw until lumber was pitiful, then put on his sharpest used blade, instead of wasting time sharpening. Told him we were too busy to help.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2019, 07:36:51 AM »
Sawing others log is something I did years ago. [at my fixed circle mill]. There are still rotted piles here people never came back for. Today I have no interest in sawing for others.  One of my best customers hade a load of walnut delivered here [1 log was 30"x14'].  He went for a hernia operation and I went to work on his logs with a chainsaw and metal detector. Sometimes this is more work than sawing them in the mill and then what do you do with the green lumber? Put it on sticks? Put it down by the road? Stare calling the guy and listen to b.s.? I have sold other peoples lumber and had them come back 2 years later [after I begged them to pick it up]. Did I mention I don't like custom sawing?

Offline Ox

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2019, 08:04:42 AM »
Turns out he would buy new blades, saw until lumber was pitiful, then put on his sharpest used blade, instead of wasting time sharpening. Told him we were too busy to help.

"wasting time sharpening"

 :-X :o
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Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Offline kbeitz

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2019, 11:49:19 PM »
Talk about sicker shock... I just put down a Grade A clear redwood 3/4 floor at $35.00 a BF.
272.25 square ft. Total cost: $9,528.75 .... It cost me $45.00.... Bought it at an auction.
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Offline Ox

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2019, 08:32:12 AM »
Wow.  Good deal!  Pics sometime?
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Offline kbeitz

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2019, 09:35:06 AM »
Needs a few more coats....

Home made band saw mill.
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Offline Ox

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Re: Sticker shock
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2019, 02:16:13 PM »
Awesome!
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools