Author Topic: What would you do with 400mmbdf (Read 28029 times)

Stevem · « **on:** February 08, 2008, 12:59:28 PM »

Interesting item in the news

http://owic.oregonstate.edu/newsletter/January2008.pdf

I've talked with the County agent and what he's looking for is something to do with all the wood on the ground. What's down is equal to the annual harvest for the county. There is a paper mill within a reasonable distance but only TWO sawmills, one huge and one small. They don't have the capacity or the flexibility to deal with a disaster of this size. This is the area of Oregon that had the infamous Tillamook Burn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook_Burn
Most of the wood is considered commodity wood (what ever that means) but there are some larger trees, 30"+ at 16 feet+.
Most of the wood is Western Hemlock and Sitka Spruce with a smattering of maple, fir, and red alder.
The County Agent told me the estimates of downed wood did not reflect accurately the loss to privately owned timberland, only City, Count, and State.
In 18 months, other than the old growth fir, this wood will only be good for chips and firewood.
I'm sending him some ideas of how a mobile saw could help him but my mind is limited (probably genetics) on ideas. So I thought I'd throw out the idea here and see what we as a group could come up with. I've sent him links to the WM and Timber King business plans.
One thought I had was to contact manufactures about getting Demo units to come in and show capabilities. WM did it for Katrina. I've also suggested that some agency here buy equipment and lease/rent/loan it to wanna-a-be mill operators. Maybe even get a DH mobile kiln lined up? That has been done in California.

One of the ironies of this situation is that Astoria is on the Colombia River and is a major seaport that exports logs to China, Japan and Korea. Part of what they’re looking for is job creation in wood products. What comes around seems to go around, yes?

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2008, 08:27:05 AM »

I think the idea of mill manufactures getting involved is a great one. As you mentioned, WM did this with Katrina but that was more of a demand situation. People were screaming for mills and they basically set up shop on one of their customers properties and started cutting logs and selling mills. If I recall, three trailer loads a week were going down their during the peak of the sales.

The oportunity is their but the limiting factor is going to be getting the logs to the mill. Now I know you folks out west have got plenty of equipment to do that but not sure how that would work out with the mill manufactures. Concept is great so lets hope one of them has a vision to make it happen. It would be a real waist for all that wood to go up in a fire place.

I know for a while China was importing Cotton wood to make cigar boxes and have hear rumors of lots of other logs going that way but no real information to support the rumors. We are kind of isolated here in the middle of the country.

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2008, 05:02:26 PM »

I know that from the conference I was at in California, some of the folks have been getting plressured to market their "unwanted" Kuala Bear food trees, that were imported from Austrailia, over a hundred years ago. Now, what would they be doing with such a tree?

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2008, 08:39:33 PM »

Feeding their pet Kuala Bears of course

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2008, 05:31:06 PM »

Steve,
any luck getting anyone to listen in your efforts to salvage this timber?

I know locally we have a Forestry Association and that has helped locally. We meet quarterly and put on work shops to educate landowners and communities.

As an example, the last Hickory load I got was from the Conservatory who normaly never gives permission for any wood to be recovered for any reason. Through education they knew the wood was going to be salvaged "localy" and lumber produced from it. Thus, they gave our Road Commissioner permission to coordinate its recovery. That is where we came into the picture.

I cant imagine the volume your dealing with up that way but I agree with you that something needs to be done salvage it.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2008, 05:41:44 PM »

This pile of hardwoods was destined for a giant burn pile during a farm fence installation. We managed to salvage enough hardwood you could have built several homes and it was all free.

These Spruce were salvaged from a wind break a farmer took out and would have been in big burn pile as well. I cut all this into construction lumber and have enough on hand to build my 40x80 shop this summer and I have "given" at least 3000 bf away to people who needed it for home repairs etc. We do that locally to those that cant afford to buy but still need it.

Stevem · « **Reply #6 on:** February 18, 2008, 10:12:39 PM »

Nothing yet but it's a new week. My mind keeps going over the possibilities of starting a tie mill or cutting timbers, or doing moulding but can't nail down a market.

I need to go see some of the wood and get a better picture of what they're talking.

Thanks for the interest

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2008, 10:28:13 PM »

I think you and Frank need to start up a venture and make it happen. Franks already got the Kiln and Moulder and with a endless supply of logs I would think the two you might start the next Gold rush to the north west

Good luck with it and keep us posted.

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2008, 07:30:20 PM »

I just heard a bit ago that it might well be around 20 billion board feet. Most of the timber is spruce and Hemlock. Many of the loggers are saying that it is way too dangerous to even get into some of the areas due to dangerous rolling logs sand asnd yet falling snags. One of my brother-in-laws is a commissioner in Clatsop County. I will try and get an update in a couple days.

Stevem · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2008, 09:06:12 PM »

And just when I was getting my mind around 400mm bdf you start talking BIG numbers. Gonna be a lot chips.
I'll be at the logging show Friday, Brewer and crew will be down there too.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2008, 09:33:16 PM »

I sure wish I was out in your neck of the woods. I cant imagine what one of those conferances are like compared to the east coast. You guys have some real trees

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2008, 08:43:13 AM »

So any progress after the loggin conference Steve?

Stevem · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2008, 01:19:01 PM »

I talked with WM a little and they are open to doing a show and tell on the coast to maybe get something going for small mills.
Also got a lead on possible market for green railroad ties and maybe some cross arms.
Looking for some place to maybe sell some Hem-Fir timbers. Lots of wood available. Any ideas?
Just read the Weyerhaeuser is shutting down a mill in SW Washington 6 months sooner than they planed because of the poor market conditions. Washinton got the same wind Oregon did on a broader front Just another million or so of wood on the ground

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2008, 08:24:38 PM »

How did the sawing on the Walnut, go today?

joasis · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2008, 08:29:33 PM »

depending on the "friend" price, I would love to have some timbers for my new home...it is going to be a steel frame, but having the timber frame look inside would be awesome.

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2008, 08:41:43 PM »

Jay, you can always box the steel, to make it look like timbers.

joasis · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2008, 09:16:03 PM »

The frame will be a "clear span"...and if I used timbers, they would make up a bottom chord and upright braces back to the steel....all for show.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2008, 08:06:50 AM »

SteveM,
Thought you might like to see this.
http://www.woodmizer.com/us/floodDamage/flood.aspx

Stevem · « **Reply #18 on:** March 13, 2008, 11:14:21 AM »

Frank,
got to finish the walnut today. My saw was not cutting right and one of the bolts holding the blade on wouldn't come loose so couldn't change blades. Not great wood so far but only have cut the two top pieces that were shorts.

Joasis, I'd love to give you a friend price but I think the shipping would be a real show stopper but I could do it. Got a cut list? --- Just about decided to buy a load of the Hemlock and see what I can get out of it, yield is a key factor to see what kind of return I can get from the trees.

Kea, I saw that link from WM and sent the link to Sam Bailey as a subtle hint for them to do something. I wonder if my prodding WM at the Logging show had anything to do with it? I'll never know.

Stevem · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2008, 12:47:46 PM »

Latest update for the local Forestry Extension Service guy is 1 billion board feet in Oregon and another billion in Washington State.
And thats probably plus or minus a million one way ofr the other, but what's a million Bdf among friends?

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2008, 11:51:12 PM »

Thats enough wood to make a guy feel sick. What a waist.

joasis · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2008, 05:50:47 PM »

I can only imagine the timber framed home I would build with access to those logs.

mike p · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2008, 07:47:55 PM »

i was just thinking of a log house with all those logs myself

Stevem · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2008, 02:35:09 AM »

I went over to Astoria and looked at some of the timber. What I saw was 100 to 125 years old and was owned by the city was told there was lots more just like it available. Pretty tight ringed, tall and straight on their city watershed. Talked to the small mill owner who runs a WD 300 and about a five man crew, one shift. He was cutting alder because it was the first time in a long time he'd be able to buy any. Weyerhaeuser was down to one shift and was backed out of the market they dominate so other could buy some. He was busy busy.

So within easy reach there is one large saw mill, one paper plant and one little bitty saw mill.
As I drove home I kept thinking about an old BC cartoon where Wylie was on a campaign to save THE very last bird of some spiecies from extinction. Since it was THE last one, the punch line was, "I think you're a little late"

One of my hopes was to get someone local to run with the ball but the powers that be all want business as usual. Sell my wood at top market price to a big mill or sell it to the pulp plant at top dollar and export what ever we get as a result. No alternative to the big mills are present. The infrastructure of small wood processing businesses in the area is totally absent. Even the old mill sites have been turned into condos or parking lots. Stumpage price now below $60/m for hemlock.

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2008, 08:57:28 AM »

Sorry it was such a waste of time. I know a foresterr for city of Astoria, and it does not supsprise me that most all of the fiber will go to waste. What a crime.

Stevem · « **Reply #25 on:** July 20, 2008, 11:44:23 AM »

I'll just write it off to the 80/20 rule. 80% of our efforts result in only 20% of our rewards and thus the other 20% gives us 80%. Now if I could only figure out which is which before, then I would only have to do 20%.
And then if I did two 20%ers I'd have 160% for 40% of the effort. Maybe I should be a math teacher?

Frank Pender - AKA "Tail Gunner" · « **Reply #26 on:** July 20, 2008, 02:09:27 PM »

Or, a politician. That kind of talk sounds more like comes out of Salem's Capital buildings and Washington DC.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2008, 09:14:19 AM »

Any luck on resurecting the powers to be to salvage any of this?

Stevem · « **Reply #28 on:** December 28, 2008, 10:35:38 AM »

Nada,

There is not basis to start from and nobody, especially now, want's to establish anything. Everybody want's the "good old days" where you sold the raw material and didn't have to make anything.

That area has totally lost it's wood product base. Old mills site were sold to build Condos on the river. Cheap fuel allowed distance mills to use the local wood fiber. Exporting raw wood to Asia was more profitable. Antique shops, fast food, tourism and lawn care companies rule the econoic climate. Enjoy your toilet paper.

Kirk Allen · « **Reply #29 on:** December 28, 2008, 11:29:41 AM »

Sad is the only word that I can share in public

News:

Author Topic: What would you do with 400mmbdf (Read 28029 times)